Help me actually understand Winds of Fate.

[hogarth]

So if your primary complaint is that WoF limitations make Green Arrow act more like Green Arrow actually acts, I can't see that as a problem.

Hey, I have no problem with WoF for a comic-book superheros game. It's pretty hard to remove the plot-enforced stupidity from that genre anyway, and arguably not even desirable to do so completely.

Indeed, it makes a certain amount of sense from a kitschy, Silver Age, face-palming, "why doesn't he just use his Bat Shark Repellent from ten issues ago?" sort of way, although I'd replace "dog whistle arrow" or "nth metal arrow" with "suspiciously-useful-against-this-particular-enemy-but-will-never-be-used-again arrow".

But in a serious game where people die and stuff, a life insurance policy against X that has a >50% chance of not paying off when X shows up is a terrible investment.

[Orion]

Am I the only one who believes in panic? Fights are complicated, you don't always understand what you're up against right away, and sometimes it takes a couple of bouts before you think of an obvious tactic. For Green Arrow to fire off a couple of regular arrows before he gets the EMP or the Fire one just makes sense to me--at the beginning of hostilities, his instinct is to get something in the air while he dives for cover. A few seconds later he calms down and comes up with an actual plan.

Seriously, the deal were PCs get to sit and sift through dozens of spells was always hard for me to believe. I suspended disbelief for the sake of the game, but if the game can *model* that panic and disorder I'm all for it.

[tzor]

Back in the old ASCII graphic game days on Compuserve, there was this interesting WWII tech level combat game. (The ASCII graphics included provisions for half height walls and other elements.) Upon the first shot being fired in the mission, green troops had a chance to go prone. This was annoying because the game was based on delays, there was a delay from the point you issued the command to the members of the unit, and another delay in terms of the time to actually carry out the command. So you might issue a command for him to move north and suddenly before he starts to move north he goes prone and starts to slowly crwal north.

(The name of the game was Sniper!)

In the early days of D&D this was somwhat implemented as the "surprize round."

[hogarth]

There was also a Coolness Under Fire attribute in Twilight 2000, FWIW.

[Ice9]

Am I the only one who believes in panic? Fights are complicated, you don't always understand what you're up against right away, and sometimes it takes a couple of bouts before you think of an obvious tactic. For Green Arrow to fire off a couple of regular arrows before he gets the EMP or the Fire one just makes sense to me--at the beginning of hostilities, his instinct is to get something in the air while he dives for cover. A few seconds later he calms down and comes up with an actual plan.

Sometimes appropriate, sometimes not. Walking through the forest when suddenly demonic bears attack? Definitely could be some panic. Defending from a squad of goblins you knew were coming? I think a veteran warrior would have a plan by that point.
So if you wanted panic, it would make more sense as a mechanic that could apply or not, depending on the foes and the situation. Not some clumsy "a kid throwing tomatoes at you puts you into berserk battle-mode" thing.

[DragonChild]

Isn't the solution to this just not have super-specific attacks, or have them OFF the WoF? Like, if you've got a "Gust of Wind" spell that does nothing but stop poison clouds, just have it a 1/encounter full round action off of the WoF. Maybe one that you have to spend a turn preparing, or decide you want it in advance early on the day or something.

[Username17]

Isn't the solution to this just not have super-specific attacks, or have them OFF the WoF? Like, if you've got a "Gust of Wind" spell that does nothing but stop poison clouds, just have it a 1/encounter full round action off of the WoF. Maybe one that you have to spend a turn preparing, or decide you want it in advance early on the day or something.

I think honestly that the solution is that when people bitch and moan about how they want to use a gust of wind spell right now and they know gust of wind and the resource management system of the game is getting in the way of what they want to do and that breaks their suspension of disbelief is to simply give the player a withering stare. The game doesn't fucking track exact positions, facing, the relative stacking of spell components in your bag, the ebb and flow of magical energies, your character's state of mind, what your character has prepared or any of that shit. Resource management systems are necessarily somewhat abstract because the modeling of the character using those resource management systems is somewhat abstract.

If a player doesn't like the fact that they can't use a spell they know because they don't have enough mana points or they didn't prepare it or it's not in their hand or whatever, the correct response is not to give the player a birthday hat and make some convoluted fucking exception for them. The proper response is to tell them to stop being such a pussy and select actions that are actually on the list of actions their character can fucking take and stop wasting table time bitching about awesome shit that for whatever reason their character can't use right now.

-Username17

[BearsAreBrown]

stuff

-Username17

Is this contradictory of your 'side board' solution to Lightning Redirect from Roleplaying in Avatar? Why is that different?

[Ice9]

I think honestly that the solution is that when people bitch and moan about how they want to use a gust of wind spell right now and they know gust of wind and the resource management system of the game is getting in the way of what they want to do and that breaks their suspension of disbelief is to simply give the player a withering stare. The game doesn't fucking track exact positions, facing, the relative stacking of spell components in your bag, the ebb and flow of magical energies, your character's state of mind, what your character has prepared or any of that shit. Resource management systems are necessarily somewhat abstract because the modeling of the character using those resource management systems is somewhat abstract.

Two things:
1) In order not to suck, the resource management system has to be somewhat consistent with the fiction. This isn't just WoF, it's any resource system. I would call a system where they justified spells per day by saying "fireballs take bat guano to cast, and you can only carry exactly five balls of it" as complete BS. If your resource system fights against WSoD, it is a detriment to the game, not an asset.

2) On a purely gameplay level, I don't think that "abilities that you rarely get the opportunity to use" and "you only have a 1/6 chance to get it even in those rare opportunities" is a good combination. Either make abilities that are broad enough to often be useful, or make sure that when a one-legged giant with red eyes finally shows up, the player definitely has access to "one-legged red-eyed giant slaying strike".

[Username17]

stuff

-Username17

Is this contradictory of your 'side board' solution to Lightning Redirect from Roleplaying in Avatar? Why is that different?

It is imperative that specialized maneuvers don't punish you for knowing them. In a game where you draw cards for each available maneuver, you have to be able to prune the irrelevant specialty cards from the deck or you get worse for knowing more things. In a game where you roll dice to generate an entire row of maneuvers, the specialty maneuvers simply accumulate on the right hand side of the chart without displacing anything. Since you're guaranteed to have some basic maneuvers on every die roll, there's no dilution for having specialty maneuvers.

-Username17

[rampaging-poet]

Am I the only one who believes in panic? Fights are complicated, you don't always understand what you're up against right away, and sometimes it takes a couple of bouts before you think of an obvious tactic. For Green Arrow to fire off a couple of regular arrows before he gets the EMP or the Fire one just makes sense to me--at the beginning of hostilities, his instinct is to get something in the air while he dives for cover. A few seconds later he calms down and comes up with an actual plan.

Sometimes appropriate, sometimes not. Walking through the forest when suddenly demonic bears attack? Definitely could be some panic. Defending from a squad of goblins you knew were coming? I think a veteran warrior would have a plan by that point.
So if you wanted panic, it would make more sense as a mechanic that could apply or not, depending on the foes and the situation. Not some clumsy "a kid throwing tomatoes at you puts you into berserk battle-mode" thing.

Maybe there could be something like readied actions? Outside of combat, you can already just use whatever power you feel like. If you have a round or two before the goblins burst through the door, why not let the barbarian wait there with Sweeping Blow on standby? That won't allow for carefully planned combos requiring three rounds' worth of actions by the whole party, but it will allow a prepared defender one good shot before he has to re-evaluate the situation.

As for not going into berserk combat mode at the drop of a hat, there are times when you simply don't engage in combat. It doesn't matter whether Green Arrow has a Buzz-Saw Arrow or a Fire Arrow at hand when some kid throws a tomato at him because he probably isn't going to shoot the kid at all.

[MGuy]

I think that this would be a lot more clear once everyone can see the results. If we can get a clear set of WoF rules laid down to be analyzed I think that everyone would be able to theorize how WoF might and might not work well for this or that. There are a lot of rules that can go into a system like this outside of the part where you roll and use the grid to see your options for the round. As Frank has pointed out it doesn't work all to differently (with the results) from a charge type game so my concern is more on whether or not you'd be able to write enough abilities that actually are unique enough to be considered different from one another.

[Lago PARANOIA]

That's a fair enough request. Here's just a kitbash I came up with in an hour to help you guys visualize what a system would look like. Because Book of Nine Swords already conveniently weeds out the non-combat powers I used that.

• Changes from the core rules: We just have one 'Martial Adept' class which is allowed to plunder manuevers from all of the schools. Stances last indefinitely and can be changed as a free action now. The only restriction is that you can only change a stance when you have a WoF roll that corresponds to row of the stance you want to change to.
• Manuever is defined as the powers that martial adepts have access to--stances, boosts, counters, and strikers. Reserve manuever slots are defined as manuevers that you know that aren't on your WoF Matrix. Active manuevers are manuevers that you know that are on your WoF Matrix.
• You are not allowed to have unfilled reserve manuever or active manuever slots. If this happens (such as gaining a new column from levelling) you must immediately fill it a manuever.
• You can make a WoF roll only at the beginning or end of your turn, with the caveat that if you make a WoF roll at the end of your turn you cannot make one at the beginning of your NEXT turn. Making a WoF roll is a free action. If you are prevented from making a WoF roll during your turn, such as being stunned, or you choose not to make one then all of the manuevers in your current row become 'expended'.
• A person can't put a unique maneuver more than once into the table. You cannot have the same manuever be in both the 'active' and 'reserve' space.
• It takes 15 minutes of intense concentration to move manuevers from reserve to active or vice-versa. It takes 3 hours to retrain an old manuever (each) or learn a new one except when you are forced to fill it--whereupon it is instantaneous. If you are retraining a manuever that is already in your active matrix you cannot choose a manuever that is of a higher level than the level of the column.
• You can only use a power once per WoF roll, at which point it counts as 'unexpended' and you cannot use it further unless you roll that row again. If you roll the same result twice (or more) in a row, you are allowed to roll again or reuse the result.
• The WoF Matrix is arranged as follows:
  The Matrix starts out as a 3 x 4, with one column for strikes, one for boosts/counters and another for stances. All of the columns are rated at 'first' level. At level 3 you gain an extra column for strikes. At level 5 you gain an extra column for boosts. At level 7 you add another row. At level 9 you gain yet another column for strikes. At first level and every other level thereafter, you gain an extra reserve manuever slot. Manuevers in your extra reserve manuever slot cannot be used unless you rearrange your matrix to rotate the power in reserve to a slot in your matrix, whereupon the old power becomes a reserve manuever. Reserve manuevers can be of any manuever level or type you can use; it may or may not be wise to make all of your reserve manuevers the highest level and/or type.
• Every time you gain access to a new level of manuevers, if it is a level in which you gain another column the column is now at the level of the highest manuever level you can use. If you don't gain a new column at this time, you replace all of the lowest-level columns with a column of the highest level you can now cast. For example, here is a progression table:
  
  Level 1: L1 Strike; L1 Boost; L1 Stance
  Level 3: L1 Strike, L2 Strike; L2 Boost; L2 Stance
  Level 5: L2 Strike, L3 Strike; L2 Boost, L3 Boost; L3 Stance
  Level 7: L3 Strike, L4 Strike; L3 Boost, L4 Boost; L4 Stance --> +1 Row.
  Level 9; L3 Strike, L4 Strike, L5 Strike; L4 Boost, L5 Boost; L5 Stance
• Basic melee attacks don't go on Matrix. It's just dumb space filler.
• We ignore the fact that the game makes almost every strike inferior to a full-attack action. That's a problem with the book (And 3E mechanics at large), not WoF.
• - Also the WoF Matrix conflicts a bit with the Bo9S, especially when it comes to stances; there are seriously entire levels with no new stances.

So with those rules established and only using powers in the book, here are what some 9th characters would look like.

Solar Shadow (Shadow Hand, Desert Wind)
Active Manuevers
Strength Draining Strike, Searing Strike, Lingering Inferno, Bloodletting Strike, Step of the Dancing Moth
Shadow Garrote, Firesnake, Drain Vitality, Blood-Letting Strike, Shadow Stride, Roots of the Mountain
Death Mark, Hand of Death, Dragon's Flame, Leaping Flame, Fountain of Blood, Assassin's Stance
Fan the Flames, Obscuring Shadow Veil, Doom Charge, Mirrored Pursuit, Searing Blade, Wolverine Stance
Reserve Manuevers
Burning Brand, Fire Riposte, Mind Over Body, Hearing the Air, Disruptive Blow


White Savant Crusader (White Raven, Devoted Spirit)
Active Manuevers
Revitalizing Strike, Mithral Tornado, Flanking Manuever, Cloak of Deception, Covering Strike, Press the Advantage
Tactical Strike, Entangling Blade, Daunting Strike, Defensive Rebuke, Mirrored Pursuit, Shifting Defense
Battle Leader's Charge, Divine Surge, Law Bearer, Lion's Roar, Stalking Shadow, Tactics of the Wolf
Foehammer, White Raven Strike, Radiant Charge, White Raven Tactics, Shield Block, Thicket of Blades
Reserve Manuevers
Zephyr Dance, Defensive Rebuke, Roots of the Mountain, Overwhelming Mountain Strike, Disrupting Blow


I didn't do a third build because the allocation of stances/boosts/counters/strikes is really unbalanced between schools, but you get the idea. You could do about 4 seperate builds with my system that didn't have power overlap, was fairly themed between schools, and didn't have to select manuevers more than their lowest level more than once or twice.

As a practical application, assuming that you wanted to port this over to a 5E PHB and made the following assumptions:

• You could make the WoF matrix bigger in column size, but it's done in such a way so that you don't displace more than one levels worth of powers at once. You never go bigger than four rows.
• You could make five extremely distinct builds of all levels and all of the manuevers granted:
• After stripping out unnecessary fluff in the manuevers (seriously, the specific description of some powers is a third of the space the manuever takes up) but still making the average size of powers in your new book is about the same size of an average manuever in this book when all is said and done:
• You wanted to have twelve character classes with loads of customization, which in Book of Nine Swords terms is about having 24 separate builds like the above with no more than 10% power overlap between build:
• You made the font size slightly smaller (1E PHB size) and kept the artwork allocation about the same:
• You keep in mind that the powers allocation in the original book is about 40 pages:

The powers section would take up about 160 pages. For comparison's sake, the 8 classes in the 4E book take up 100 pages and the spells section in the 3E PHB is 100 pages.

[Orion]

Ice9 -- wouldn't you say that it depends on how *long* the condition in which it's useful is expected to last? If a move is only good during specific game states that last for one round, AND those states are rare, then the move is not useful. For instance if you have a "snout-kick" move which is only good when "you have been tripped by a dog" you might never see it.

But if the move is useful "if you are fighting a giant" than frankly 1/6 of the time is often enough. That means if you have 2 encounters with giants that last 4 rounds each, the move is almost certain to come out.

[hogarth]

2) On a purely gameplay level, I don't think that "abilities that you rarely get the opportunity to use" and "you only have a 1/6 chance to get it even in those rare opportunities" is a good combination. Either make abilities that are broad enough to often be useful, or make sure that when a one-legged giant with red eyes finally shows up, the player definitely has access to "one-legged red-eyed giant slaying strike".

Using Frank's own example of Green Arrow: Either some of GA's other arrows can be used to fight a ghost (in which case a purpose-built anti-ghost arrow is taking up a slot in the matrix that could be used by a more general arrow) or it's the only arrow that can be used to fight a ghost (in which case he's sitting on his ass doing nothing 83% of the time when he fights a ghost).

The fact that RIFTS characters and spellcasters Runequest and martial artists in HERO have more than 7 options coming out of the starting gate isn't even a necessary data point.

I finally got around to opening up my 4E Champions book; most of my experience was with 2E Champions where martial artists literally used Martial Kick and Martial Dodge to directly replace punch and dodge (i.e. a net increase of zero options).

Looking at the sample martial artist Seeker, his martial arts has 5 moves: martial strike, offensive strike, martial block, martial dodge and martial throw. Three of those (martial strike, martial block and martial dodge) are just upgrades of existing maneuvers; they're not options any more than using a +2 sword vs. a +1 sword is an option in D&D. So that's two net new options, one of which is a reactive defense; do defensive reactions even belong in a Winds of Fate matrix? E.g. if I punch someone, does that mean that I can't choose to abort my action to block or dodge if the situation arises?

[Lago PARANOIA]

1) In order not to suck, the resource management system has to be somewhat consistent with the fiction. This isn't just WoF, it's any resource system. I would call a system where they justified spells per day by saying "fireballs take bat guano to cast, and you can only carry exactly five balls of it" as complete BS. If your resource system fights against WSoD, it is a detriment to the game, not an asset.

Unlike Frank, I'm willing to spend a couple of paragraphs on a convoluted explanation because I know how butthurt grognards get, but if someone continues poking at edges of the system and demanding an explanation it leads me less to believe 'this is actually causing a problem of cognitive dissonance' and 'I'm just looking for a reason to reject it'. Obviously I'm going to lose my patience at the latter, because no amount of explanation is going to satisfy these people. So I'm just going to go 'it's a gameplay tradeoff, come back to me after you've complained to me about not letting people play gelatinous cubes'.

If you really do want an explanation, here's the best one I can offer:

Thinking of WoF as 'I'm prevented from shooting Boxing Glove Arrows' is the wrong way to think of it. WoF doesn't actually prevent you from selecting your move due to iterative probability. Unlike spell charges or mana points, you can actually use Boxing Glove Arrow or Fireball all day. WoF determines how quickly you can do it. If you do something quickly and repeatedly it represents a moment when things line up just so well you can do it perfectly.

So the issue isn't that Green Arrow isn't afflicted with PIS when he shoots a regular arrow at the Fire Golem instead of a freezing arrow, it's just that he could have shot a regular arrow and an armor piercing arrow AND a freezing arrow in the same amount of time it would take him to shoot just his freezing arrow. Sometimes it takes him 2 seconds to line up a shot with a freezing arrow that has a chance of hitting, sometimes it takes him 6 seconds. For whatever reason (positioning, compensating for wind, waiting for the fire golem to expose himself, whatever) it takes 6 seconds to do it but the same combination of unknown factors will allow him to put other arrows in his bow until the time is right to use a Freezing Arrow. Indeed, his player throwing a tantrum and deciding that it'd be 'cooler' to one-shot the fire golem with a Freezing Arrow so refuses to explore other options until the 6 seconds pass is him inflicting his PIS on Green Arrow since Freezing Arrow + Regular + AP Arrow is just more effective.

Video games have conditioned us to the idea that superpowers should be available on demand because it's a--get this--gameplay/realism tradeoff, but that ain't necessarily so. Unless a video game revolves solely around trying to get the stars to align right to use a supermove (like a boxing game), the RPG will just handwave things down to a simpler system. Indeed, why SHOULD Ryu's Shinkuu Hadouken always take 3 seconds to charge up and fire regardless of the tactical situation? That's videogame logic.

Boxer McFightFight just can't bust out with his Chicago Haymaker at the beginning of the round, since it'll just automatically fail because it requires more of an opening than Double Jab. He will get to use Chicago Haymaker at some point because who knows when his opponent will drop his guard, but in the meantime why doesn't he use Double Jab and Quick Hook? A boxing game can actually pay enough attention to all of the variables required for McFightFight to line up a Chicago Haymaker, but a multiplayer RPG just can't because it can't afford to be that deep. If it wants to model a fight with any degree of versimilitude or excitement, it needs to come up with an excuse as to why he can't spam Chicago Haymaker. Video games have mostly gone in the direction of 'fuck it, we're lazy he can spam Chicago Haymaker' but unfortunately this has led people of TTRPGs to think that this is how fights should go and not just a reflection of the limitations of programming.

[Lago PARANOIA]

2) On a purely gameplay level, I don't think that "abilities that you rarely get the opportunity to use" and "you only have a 1/6 chance to get it even in those rare opportunities" is a good combination. Either make abilities that are broad enough to often be useful, or make sure that when a one-legged giant with red eyes finally shows up, the player definitely has access to "one-legged red-eyed giant slaying strike".

You could also just have maneuvers waiting in reserve if you want to have really obscure abilities like Catnip Arrow. This is so that you can implement a mild punishment for people who don't plan ahead and a reward for people who do without increasing the size of the WoF matrix too much.

[Orion]

I believe at least one writeup allowed you to spend a turn "focusing", thus getting to pick your WoF roll for the next turn. So even if only one of your powers is worth using, you'd only be 50% useless. And you'd always have the option to do anything, it just takes 2 rounds.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I believe at least one writeup allowed you to spend a turn "focusing", thus getting to pick your WoF roll for the next turn. So even if only one of your powers is worth using, you'd only be 50% useless. And you'd always have the option to do anything, it just takes 2 rounds.

I don't think that it should be an option because it will lead to people throwing a temper tantrum if they don't get Freeze Arrow and will stubbornly head down the Freeze Arrow path, leading to two possibilities:

1) Focusing is just as good in aggregate as following the WoF rolls. This defeats the point of the entire system.

2) It isn't as good, but because of the aforementioned temper tantrum people will go down that road anyway. Or they just have terminally bad tactics. Or because of 'roleplay' reasons. This leads to people gimping themselves; which is fine in competitive games, not good in cooperative team-based games. If only Rat Flail people would regularly choose this suboptimal tactic that would be one thing, but I can see a whole bunch of people choosing it regardless.

The only way you could really avert 1 and 2 is to make the 'focus' action take so long that even a newbie would get the hint that it's a bad idea, but at that point why even have it as an option?

I do agree that there should be some kind of mechanic that lets people force a result now and then, but it should be rare (no more than 2/day) and come at a cost. I do think that it's kind of lame that you don't get to finish off the Dark Lord with the technique said Dark Lord used to kill your master in a display of dramatic irony and some proviso should be made for this.

[Avoraciopoctules]

I tried writing a Winds of Fate system for people's abilities in a game a while ago, but I ran into a bit of an obstacle when I realized that giving people utility uses for every power was kind of weird when out of combat time. Some kind of "focus" option would certainly be useful in that case. That way, when there's a bunch of poison smoke moving at the PCs but they have several minutes before it shows up, there won't be a bunch of dickering over whether people have to get the right d6 roll to even get the chance to use Wind Cutting Strike to disperse it at the appropriate time.

[Murtak]

I tried writing a Winds of Fate system for people's abilities in a game a while ago, but I ran into a bit of an obstacle when I realized that giving people utility uses for every power was kind of weird when out of combat time. Some kind of "focus" option would certainly be useful in that case. That way, when there's a bunch of poison smoke moving at the PCs but they have several minutes before it shows up, there won't be a bunch of dickering over whether people have to get the right d6 roll to even get the chance to use Wind Cutting Strike to disperse it at the appropriate time.

That sounds like a perfect opportunity to just steal DnDs "take 20" rule. If you are not under pressure and have enough time to just iterate through all possible rolls of the dice you get to select your roll. So if you are using a d6 for your WoF roll the rule is "If you are not under pressure you can take 6 rounds to fiddle around and then select your WoF roll.".

[RobbyPants]

Yeah. They seem to map really well together. Whether you explain it as attuning for X rounds or simply that you statistically will make your roll in X rounds is up to you. Either way, it's just a time-saver.

[Dean]

I feel like there should be an identical combat and out of combat rule for using a power you want to use and how long it takes to draw on. I think it should be reasonable and usable regularly, nay, constantly without it ever being annoying. Keep in mind every time a Wizard casts prestidigitation he has to use this system.

Thus I suggest that if you take a full round "preparing" (an action that provokes attacks of opportunity) you may perform the action immediately at the start of the next round. So if it's a standard action spell it's a full round to charge it and a standard to cast it. This way if a Mage is above a camp with no one around him he can cast whatever spell he wants this round, and if a fighter is practice fighting a party member who wants to see his "hurricane parry" he can. There are certainly circumstances where the WoF's story reasoning, it's flavor reasoning, don't line up with the mechanic and this realigns them. When the Fighter wants to use his Whirlwind attack and doesn't roll it you don't say "Why can't I do it???. You can do it, you'll have to start now and let the goblins stab at you while you line your feet up just right and hope that next round everybody stayed where they were during their last turns.

I'm aware that the immediate response is that this will single-handedly ruin the WoF system in total. And that in allowing people to amp up some single super move you will make it so that people just spam "Enlarged Tensers Transformation" or whatever spell happens to be broken. But I don't think this is true. I think it's a reasonable compromise to be able to pick what you want to do, it lines up the mechanics fluff with their function, and that even if there is a very powerful ability that people spam every other round I don't think that's broken. If two identical characters are put into a 6 round combat and one goes 6 times (getting that "super-move" once on average as well), while the other goes 3 times but super-moves every time. That seems acceptable to me from both angles as well as making it fairly obviously clear that the right option is probably being chosen by the first combatant.

[PhoneLobster]

Isn't it interesting that every single suggestion about implementing WoF seems to revolve around "but I want a god damn select my next move ability of some form".

Which you know. Is utterly counter to the point of WoF. And largely proves that hey, people don't actually fucking want their tactical decisions made by a 1d6 each turn.

Just saying.

PS. Actually play tested yet?

[Username17]

PS. Actually play tested yet?

Several versions, both with cards and charts. Works fine. People find cards more "intuitive" and complain less about not being able to use things on cards that aren't in their hands than they do about not being able to use things that are on the chart in rows they didn't generate. Even though that's basically the same thing.

It's frustrating, but perhaps an essential part of human nature. If you give someone a package with a lovely cake, they'll be thrilled. If you give them a lovely cake that happens to be visibly next to two different equally lovely cakes that they aren't getting, they'll be angry.

-Username17