Making Humans less vanilla in fantasy settings

[shadzar]

MY reason for almost never wanting to play a Human in D&D is because I have gotten fed up playing a Human in almost EVERY damned game or RPG ever

"D&D must be changed because i game with bad people! WAAAAH!"

[icyshadowlord]

I think you missed the point or deliberately misinterpreted what I had written there.
Humans are the default race not just in TTRPGs, but in video games and other media...THAT was my point.

Aside from that, I can say: "Oh u, trolling as usual I see."

[shadzar]

Again why Gary and Dave made human-centric worlds and most gamer manufacturers follow that is because humans give a baseline to relate to the world.

Stop playing all the other games that focus on humans then.

you realize, MOST fiction written in this (human) world uses humans as the baseline?

nobody is forcing you to play a human in D&D either.

your problem is not the fault of the games, but your own. YOU CHOOSE the games you play.

[icyshadowlord]

I never blamed the game for the problem. I blamed the people who never want to play anything else than a human.

And I really should put you back on ignore, because this thread is already starting to stagnate because of your stupidity.

[shadzar]

because other people want to play a human, doesnt mean you have to.

[icyshadowlord]

Yes it does if DM says "you can only play humans in this campaign", and there are no other DMs around. But that's beside the point.
Instead of arguing, why don't we stay on-topic and try to see HOW we can make humans less vanilla.

[Gx1080]

@icyshadowlord

You don't like playing humans and also don't like to not have the choice of not playing humans. Got it. Stop derailing the thread because some people want to use and play human-only fantasy settings. Nobody cares, argue it with your DM, not us.

Also, ignore shadzar.

Making race an aesthetic/roleplay choice is fine, but the Humans issue is a roleplay issue, not a mechanics issue. Gamers not being creative and playing cooler versions of themselves/past characters is something that is going to be there, humans or not.

Also, more importantly, on the roleplay aspect, I don't thinik that you can make a corebook with the D&D brand without the LotR base (Elves, Dwarves, Humans, Orcs/Half Orcs and Halflings) without facing huge backlash because a)LotR is the basis of the entire Medieval Fantasy genre and b)Is one of the few Fantasy series that people actually respect (points to the large pile of hack Fantasy writing).

[Psychic Robot]

a)LotR is the basis of the entire Medieval Fantasy genre

and
here
we
go

[shadzar]

the problem, icey, is the thread poses a solution to a non-problem.

humans ARE the vanilla, the baseline, the thing EVERYTHING else is compared to.

you want something other than human, then it is no longer human.

[PhoneLobster]

... once to block off my homebrews. I HATE people using this in their fantasy works, because MY reason for almost never wanting to play a Human in D&D is because I have gotten fed up playing a Human in almost EVERY damned game or RPG ever (and because I love making my own races

Your text makes this very unclear. But it seems like you are complaining because ONCE EVER someone said "I don't want your races inserted here" and you NEVER WANT TO PLAY HUMANS EVER, but for inexplicable and unrelated reasons, ALMOST ALWAYS DO. Which is even more confusing when you ALWAYS play human and yet only ONCE EVER were actually prevented from playing something else. I am confused. Which is it, do people REALLY ram human down your throat ALL the time, or not?

and giving them both slight stereotypes AND a broad range of other options in building up who and what they exactly are

Guess what. "What non-humans?" the mechanical edition gives you exactly what you always dreamed of. Why? Because the GM has absolutely no mechanical excuse to reject you. Because slight stereotypes and a broad range of other options is what humans, including the pointy eared ones, ALL GET ANYWAY.

You walk in, say I want a blue skinned pointy eyed garblewargleblork that I just invented and is SO fucking wanky cool, and he says "hell no" and you say, fuck you it's the exact same rules as every other human shaped race in the game. And he says, oh sorry, OK lets just reconcile the fluff angle and we are cool to go... but really garblewargleblork? What is that fucking Klingon?

You ARE a "What non-humans" advocate. You just don't know it yet.

[icyshadowlord]

...seems like I unknowingly made a big mess of this whole thread. But yeah, I will clarify. Yes, people ram humans down my throat ALL THE TIME. There are very few times when they let me play something out of the norm, and one of those few times was when I was DM (which is not nearly as fun as being a Player)

And apologies for misreading that mechanic there. However, even if my race was mechanically identical to humans, I think some DMs (the ones I know, at least) would still say no because they seem to think only Humans deserve Human stats...

But yeah, can we GET BACK TO THE POINT PLEASE?

Edit to fix typos.

[Prak]

There are three main strengths of humans in fantasy, fearlessness, resilience, and adaptabilty. In D&D, fearlessness is a halfling attribute*, but humans are adaptable, reflected in their bonus skill points and feat., and it's dwarves who are "resilient." What could be done, however, is one could play up these common traits. You give humans a bonus to resist fear (either taking it from halflings, or leaving it to them, and making peace with the fact that it's a shared trait/giving humans a larger bonus), an ability resist damage or recover from it better, or possibly a bonus to resist pain effects, and playing up the fact that when something becomes ubiquitous within a human society, pretty much every human knows something about it (think about modern humans and computers).

So, basically, I'd give humans the following:

• Courage: Humans are frequently able to press on even when any rational being would be scared witless. They have a +4 bonus to resist fear effects
• Made of Iron: Humans are able to resist great pain, often better than they themselves realize. Humans have DR 1/-, and a +4 bonus to resist pain penalties and pain based effects.
• Jacks of All Trades: Humans are amazingly adaptable, and their cultures encourage individuals to know something about the foundation of the society. A human gains a +2 racial bonus to a single skill, according to the culture they come from. (insert table of human cultures on facing page)

I'd probably also leave them with their bonus skill points, and feat, and possibly that "choose your own +2 ability" thing that's become fairly common.

*there's actually a really good reason for this. Halflings are of course based off of Tolkien's hobbits, which were vaguely obscured englishmen, so there are a lot of cultural similarities between humans and halflings.

[icyshadowlord]

You intend on making humans even stronger? To me, already having one free feat was a huge advantage against every other race when it comes to them...but sure, whatever rows your boat.

But how do those changes make humans less vanilla?

[Prak]

I honestly don't think a free feat and skill points is on par with the other races (especially since many of them get equivalent things; elves with five free proficiencies, for example).

It makes humans less vanilla (and god do I hate that term... people who think vanilla is bland have never had real vanilla) by giving them actual unique features other than "choose whatever you want for your bonus."

Other Races, for the record, get:

• Dwarves: 3 separate +2s on skills when stone is involved, something you'd see in a feat. +2 to save against three separate kinds of effects, and a +4 on another resistance. Along with assorted combat bonuses against certain creatures.
• Elves: +2 on three separate skills, a special ability to be considered always actively searching for something. +2 to resist a specific type of effect and an immunity to another, and four martial proficiencies.
• Gnomes: A flat bonus to AC, a conditional AC bonus, +2 on two skills, +2 against illusions, a bonus to their DCs for a certain school of magic, a combat bonus against two fairly common enemy types (at low levels, at least) and 1-4 spell like abilities.
• Halflings: A flat bonus to AC, +2 on three skills, +1 on all saves, a further +2 vrs. fear, and a bonus on certain weapons.

Yeah, I don't think what I gave humans is too out of line.

[shadzar]

yeah, people seem to be using it as though everything starts vanilla, then adding chocolate or strawberry somehow mutes the vanilla. when in fact vanilla is no different than chocolate, because it too is a flavor that must be added.

unflavored, would be what humans are.

if it is power disparity...then if you dont want to beef up humans beyond real-world expectations, then just weaken the fictional races so that humans become more dominant.

sort of Tolkien-esque...the world if turning to the age of man....so the other races are passing out of time.

[RadiantPhoenix]

I think that, especially in Tome, a bonus feat is actually a pretty awesome ability.

Anyway, ways to make humans less vanilla: emphasize our existing advantages over other members of the animal kingdom:
* Endurance and temperature control in warm climates (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)
* Throwing skills
* Senses (Good eyesight compared to other mammals, good hearing compared to many organisms, and a decent sense of smell)

[angelfromanotherpin]

• Ability to make and mimic a truly extraordinary breadth of sounds.

[RadiantPhoenix]

• Ability to make and mimic a truly extraordinary breadth of sounds.

That ties into speech, which seems like a necessity in order to have a 'common' language.

[Prak]

I think that, especially in Tome, a bonus feat is actually a pretty awesome ability.

In tome, yes. Outside of it, not so much. Most other races get something equivalent in mechanical bonus. Hell, Elves get five and a half (four martial proficiencies, three +2 skill bonuses)

Anyway, ways to make humans less vanilla: emphasize our existing advantages over other members of the animal kingdom:
* Endurance and temperature control in warm climates (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)
* Throwing skills
* Senses (Good eyesight compared to other mammals, good hearing compared to many organisms, and a decent sense of smell)

This basically just says "Halflings should be erased, and their non-size related stuff should be given to human." Which I totally agree, with, for the most part, since halflings literally originally represented the common man.

However, pretty much any humanoid race is going to likely exhibit those same attributes, I think.

[Josh_Kablack]

Here's one I haven't really seen much of in fantasy, but which occasionally pops up in post-apocalypse settings:

Humans are the fallen remnants of the Old Race.

Humans were here first. They built great and wonderous empires. Then came the chaos and new races. Sages debate to this day whether the arrogance of the empire brought the chaos which was only beat back by the arrival of the newmen whether the newmen themselves destroyed the glory of the empire and brought the chaos.

In this setup humans are the goto race for wizards of lost traditions and archaeologists of the ancient ruins and also the prime race for genocidal racist archvillans who want to roll things back to a bygone era before their race declines further.

[RadiantPhoenix]

However, pretty much any humanoid race is going to likely exhibit those same attributes, I think.

Well, yeah, but that's because humanoid means 'like humans'.

[Prak]

However, pretty much any humanoid race is going to likely exhibit those same attributes, I think.

Well, yeah, but that's because humanoid means 'like humans'.

That wasn't my line of thought. My line of thought was that the erect, bipedal, binocular visioned, manipulating hands model evolved in a certain way, for certain reasons. Every species which exhibits this form likely fulfilled the same niche as proto-humans in a different environment, and will likely have the same adaptations.

...unless, of course, your world is creationist.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Perhaps we should start by making a list of things that we think could be viable shticks for a playable race, and only afterwards pick a set for humans.

EDIT: So let me start:

+ Strong
+ Agile
+ Fast
+ Perceptive
+ Smart

+ X weapon bonus
+ Bonus vs X

+ Sneaky
+ Persistent
* Cereberal
* Physical
* Angry
* Passive

[Wrathzog]

Well, take it up to a higher level. Races are basically differentiated by three things:

Physical Aspects
Mental Aspects
Social Aspects

Figure out what sets us apart from everyone else and then worry about mechanics afterwards. So, for humans it's like...

Physical - Humans are physically weaker than most other species. Their strengths seem to revolve around the ability to run for extremely long distances. Their eyesight is suited for daytime activities.

Mental - Humans are smart and innovative; they're able to think quickly on their feet in a time of crisis.

Social - Humans are an aggressive race, always looking to expand. This is reflected greatly into the constant scientific and magical advances humans have made in an effort to make up for their physical shortcomings in comparison with the other civilized races of the world.

[PhoneLobster]

Well, take it up to a higher level.

And then I am afraid, you failed.

Physical Aspects - All humanoids would be similar.
Mental Aspects - All playable sentients would be similar.
Social Aspects - All humanoids would have similar potentials.

Lets try that with a "fixed quote"...

Physical - Goblins are physically weaker than most other species. Their strengths seem to revolve around the ability to run for extremely long distances. Their eyesight is suited for daytime activities.

Mental - Goblins are smart and innovative; they're able to think quickly on their feet in a time of crisis.

Social - Goblins are an aggressive race, always looking to expand. This is reflected greatly into the constant scientific and magical advances Goblins have made in an effort to make up for their physical shortcomings in comparison with the other civilized races of the world.

Goblins. Close enough to your version of "unique" humans to pass a flat out substitution test.