@CatharzGodfoot: I hope to god this whole post was a joke. But I'm going to assume it's not.
So you humiliate someone in front of her underlings. Anyone can do that; it isn't social combat. [...]
OK, a reasonable argument: social combat isn't about humiliation. But I never said social combat WAS about humiliating someone, just that humiliation was a likely effect. I would say social combat is about getting someone to do something for you that they wouldn't likely to do. NOT about getting someone to do what they would NEVER do. Apparently you and PL think that by besting someone verbally, by "wowing" them with your words, you can convert them to slaves.
What I would like from you, then, is an example. What would you say to the king (in an hour, or 12 seconds) that would make him give up his crown and title? How would you "socially combat" him? Be "that fucking glib" to me.
If your answer is "roll a d20", then you have officially left the realm of role playing for the realm of ungrounded mechanics.
Well, yeah, that's because the car salesman is level 1, and has a low charisma. The girl rolls low and 'just isn't your type'. The king has a will defense of +14.
The point being, if you had run into a really persuasive, charismatic guy on the street, and he had a deal on a new car which was just too good to turn down...you'd stop, and you might buy that car. If an incredibly hot, engaging girl starts chatting you up in a bar, you will listen. A girl that smoking hot talking to you? And she's smart too? Jesus, she even seems to like RPGs!
And finally, when God comes down and says to the king, "I want your kingdom", the king says 'How high?'.
You're talking about attackers and defenders like they were the same thing. The car salesman can attack me with his +1, but the king can defend against me with +14. What I'm saying is, the king does not have to defend at all (just like I don't have to defend against the car salesman). It's called "simply ignoring you". You cannot engage in social combat with someone who is not being social to you.
As far as the salesman, no, I wouldn't stop to listen to him, because I have a car. I am not so socially defeatable that people can stop me on the street and sell me stuff that I neither want nor need.
As far as the girl hitting on me, you're right, I would probably talk to her. But really, how weak-willed do you have to be to allow her to get you to DO anything? I might buy her a drink (but then my wife would kill me). I would not write her a check, give her my bank account info or my social security number, or sign over my house. No matter HOW charming she was being.
And really? "God"? You're comparing a "socially adept" person to a freaking religious figure that people WORSHIP?
It sounds like what you're saying is 'There's no way a guy with a stick can beat a knight in armor. It just can't happen, probability zero. Even if the guy is really good at stick fighting, the stick isn't magic and the knight is wearing armor and the guy isn't that good.'
Well, the guy with the stick really is that good. It doesn't matter if he's never met you before. He may not know a thing about you beyond 'probably human internet denizen', and that will be enough that he can smile at you until you drop your wallet and run.
JCWTF?? I said NOTHING about guys with sticks or armor. How does your analogy even make sense? Yes, you can hit someone with a stick. You can also try to intimidate/seduce/bribe/blackmail/convince someone. The big difference is, you can ignore the person ranting at you. You can't ignore someone with a stick.
And, if you DO go after someone with a stick, it is NOT the same thing as "social combat". It's thuggery, pure and simple.
NPCs are still just as much in the hand of DMs and PCs are still just as much in the hands of players as before. It's just that now we have a way to resolve things like Diplomacy beyond 'I got a 37, he's my friend for life.' That and things like Charms are changed into Save or Suck abilities rather than SoDs.
So you would rather have a situation where you say "I got a 37 on my Social Combat check. He's my friend for life."
If you don't like Diplomacy, then don't use it. Personally, the only thing I feel Diplomacy should be used for is negotiating a small deal. It will never "win you a friend for life".
See, winning a friend for life happens by either a) being someone's friend, b) doing something really, really great for that person, or c) conning them. Conning, however, takes a long time. You cannot make a simple check, based on a single interaction, and win a friend/mindslave.
That's why you have a condition track rather than the current binary status. But really, maybe you should give peasants more credit. Social class notwithstanding, they can drive a hard bargain too.
Really? You can envision a situation where someone offered you $8 for your car and you would take it? Can you truly envision yourself being that gullible? Or malleable? Or "socially defeatable"? And I'm not talking about ditching a car you shot someone in, or a car that was about to break down (where you are, in effect, screwing the "peasant"). I'm talking about you getting fleeced.
Come to think of it, I'd like an example of this, too, though I don't think you'll be able to come up with one. It's just too easy to say "get lost" then risk engaging in some sort of "wager" that will allow someone to drive off with your car.
Of course, he can mug you (hit you with a stick). Or he can blackmail you (but that would require extraordinary luck (witnessing you do something, being quick enough to get proof, and tracking you down after) or hours of research). Or he can seduce you into taking rufies or something.
Yes, there ARE ways of making people do what you want. But none of those things is even remotely similar to "social combat". And CERTAINLY not the type of social combat where you win a "friend for life"! Go ahead, blackmail someone into doing something for you, and see if they're willing to be your pal.
Yes, there are people that are easy to dupe out there. But I think I am safe when I say that those people are not kings, or if they are they are backed up by panels and cabinets chock full of competent viziers.