What is the biggest debacle of RPG history?

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Voss
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Post by Voss »

vagrant wrote:Seriously, Voss, are you honestly trying to take moral offense at a fucking fictional published setting?
No. I'm pointing out that there are elements which offend or disturb people and they don't want to deal with that shit at the gaming table. As I pointed out earlier, cartoon expies of WWII issues in family friendly, consequence free versions offends me a lot more than tentacle rape. It was just easier to show the tentacle rape to sane people, because historical issues are obviously far too complex. Sadly, I overestimated my audience- I've recently relocated out of rural America and have gotten used to dealing with educated people who understand complex issues (and unfortunately, who are often far too sensitive for their own good). Apparently in this thread I have to retune my tone for abject stupidity.

I'm also insulting MGuy, because he's too busy sucking at Baker's teat to understand that not everyone shares his Eberron erection or his point of view.
Last edited by Voss on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

Thousands, if not millions, of people played Rifts and were not offended by the nazi pastiche of the Coalition States, and half-orc characters without being offended by the rape origin of most half orcs.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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vagrant
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Post by vagrant »

So once again, Voss - if you prefer playing Friendship is Magic, that's your thing. But casting your personal mores as an objective ruleset to claim that parts of a fictional setting in which you play murder-hobos that kill and loot for cash and blowjobs is somehow inherently offensive...is fucking stupid.
Then, once you have absorbed the lesson, that your so-called "friends" are nothing but meat sacks flopping around in the fashion of an outgassing corpse, pile all of your dice and pencils and graph-paper in the corner and SET THEM ON FIRE. Weep meaningless tears.

-DrPraetor
Drachasor
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Post by Drachasor »

Hmm, where does the daelkyr half-blood appear?

Where does the weird stuff about the Silver Flame appear?
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vagrant
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Post by vagrant »

Daelkyr half-bloods are in Magic of Eberron, and the Silver Flame stuff (I dun really know about weird) is in Core.
Then, once you have absorbed the lesson, that your so-called "friends" are nothing but meat sacks flopping around in the fashion of an outgassing corpse, pile all of your dice and pencils and graph-paper in the corner and SET THEM ON FIRE. Weep meaningless tears.

-DrPraetor
Drachasor
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Post by Drachasor »

vagrant wrote:Daelkyr half-bloods are in Magic of Eberron, and the Silver Flame stuff (I dun really know about weird) is in Core.
Thanks. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the whole weird internal fight in an 8 year-old's head in Core. That's the part of the Silver Flame I was asking about.
MGuy
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Post by MGuy »

Drachasor wrote:
vagrant wrote:Daelkyr half-bloods are in Magic of Eberron, and the Silver Flame stuff (I dun really know about weird) is in Core.
Thanks. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the whole weird internal fight in an 8 year-old's head in Core. That's the part of the Silver Flame I was asking about.
IT doesn't have her with an internal fight. THey don't cover the girl in much detail. Voss, being Voss of course, extrapolated it because there are parts that say that part of the flame is evil and whispers naughty things to those that know how to listen to it. I don't remember reading in any source about the girl interacting with this part of the flame.
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If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.
MGuy
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Post by MGuy »

Voss wrote:I'm also insulting MGuy, because he's too busy sucking at Baker's teat to understand that not everyone shares his Eberron erection or his point of view.
Yes OBVIOUSLY I have too much of an Eberron boner because you don't know hardly anything about the setting, don't read the links you post, and seem to be trying to back up the claim that parts of this game are vomit inducing by adding elements that just aren't there or re-imagining them in such a way where they 'might' offend people who can't handle watching Alien (possibly part of the same group that believe Paranormal Activity was a scary move).

The setting isn't complicated enough for you? Fine. Positing that the 8 year old dalai lama is an implied victim of pedophilia and tentacle rape? That's bullshit.
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.
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Post by Username17 »

MGuy wrote:IT doesn't have her with an internal fight. THey don't cover the girl in much detail. Voss, being Voss of course, extrapolated it because there are parts that say that part of the flame is evil and whispers naughty things to those that know how to listen to it. I don't remember reading in any source about the girl interacting with this part of the flame.
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[/img]

Dude, she has a Paladin, a Couatl, and a Rape Demon in her head. How the fucking fuck can she possibly not interact with the third one? Also, page 136 of the Five Nations book gives a big rant about how the Whispering Flame demon cultists believe that she is their leader.

She's 11 by the way, not 12.

-Username17
MGuy
Prince
Posts: 4871
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
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Post by MGuy »

FrankTrollman wrote:
MGuy wrote:IT doesn't have her with an internal fight. THey don't cover the girl in much detail. Voss, being Voss of course, extrapolated it because there are parts that say that part of the flame is evil and whispers naughty things to those that know how to listen to it. I don't remember reading in any source about the girl interacting with this part of the flame.
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[/img]

Dude, she has a Paladin, a Couatl, and a Rape Demon in her head. How the fucking fuck can she possibly not interact with the third one? Also, page 136 of the Five Nations book gives a big rant about how the Whispering Flame demon cultists believe that she is their leader.

She's 11 by the way, not 12.

-Username17
For one the other two are in the flame specifically to make it so that the "rape demon" can't do anything. If they are doing their job there is a nonzero chance that the Rape Demon can't do anything as 'in your face' as speaking to their chosen listener.

Beyond that, it doesn't say anywhere that she does interact with the 'Rape Demon'. If she does have to tango with all three it doesn't say what effect it has on her, or her decisions but it certainly doesn't suggest that she's had to struggle with horrible rape filled nightmares or even hint at such a thing.

Evil cultists "believing" that she's their leader doesn't really prove anything and the book doesn't have her play any part in their activities.
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Orion
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Post by Orion »

MGuy, please don't get flippant about sexual assault just to win an argument. That Breed Leech writeup is absolutely about rape. It's unwanted penetration with a reproductive element. "Not as bad as Alien" doesn't mean much in this context, since Alien is in fact a monster rape movie that some people do find too upsetting to watch. It's also way more upsetting than Succubi are in core.

That said, they aren't in the core Eberron book and I hadn't heard of them until now. I don't see them as a strong argument that Eberrone as a setting is particularly inappropriate. And I'm completely baffled by the notion that racial supremacist demagogues are beyond the pale for D&D. They're the bread and butter of D&D, with plenty of examples in the core Monster Manual. So On the whole I can't agree with Voss on the setting.
DragonChild
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Post by DragonChild »

It's worth noting that the demon in the flame explicitly has its OWN champion, who is petrified and kept bound in prison, because if she died it would get a new champion. It's also explicitly not a far realm creature - it's a demon lord linked to strife and treason. Any attempt to call it a "far realm rape demon" is just basically outright lying or showing that the talker doesn't know a single goddamn thing about the setting.

Also, any attempt to suggest the Lord of Blades is at all like Isreal is just... amazing, amazing, delusional ramblings. Is ANY group trying to claim a country of their own just like Isreal in-setting, and thus should be avoided at all? I mean if you were going to read in insane anti-jewish sentiment somewhere, there are a ton more places in Eberron you could see it in. But, you know, it takes place after a major war so land is going to have changed hands.

I also don't see any issue with the Blood of Vol (keeping in mind that the core rules are inconsistent with how undead work, and if we assume "playing with fire" it's fine, and if not well lots of OTHER shit is fucked up in the core rules anyway).

It's pretty clearly Voss has an attitude of "I don't like this thing, so I will blow everything out of proportion, make shit up, and act like a total idiot just to make it seem worse than it is."
Last edited by DragonChild on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DragonChild
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Post by DragonChild »

It's also worth noting that the shifter purge is generally viewed as a terrible overreaction - werewolves were nasty as fuck and killing shittons of people, so they were fought back against and killed en masse, and a lot of people got too overzealous and started killing shifters too, and the book does everything it can to portray this as an overreaction bad thing. And... I'm OK with this. We're not supposed to sympathize with people who killed shifters for being shifters. This, to me, sits a WHOLE fucking lot better than the "People of these races are just born evil naturally, so it's alright to slaughter them" that D&D is filled with.
Drachasor
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Post by Drachasor »

DragonChild wrote:It's also worth noting that the shifter purge is generally viewed as a terrible overreaction - werewolves were nasty as fuck and killing shittons of people, so they were fought back against and killed en masse, and a lot of people got too overzealous and started killing shifters too, and the book does everything it can to portray this as an overreaction bad thing. And... I'm OK with this. We're not supposed to sympathize with people who killed shifters for being shifters. This, to me, sits a WHOLE fucking lot better than the "People of these races are just born evil naturally, so it's alright to slaughter them" that D&D is filled with.
To be fair, 3.0/.5 doesn't say that wanton slaughter of goblins and the like is ok. The alignment rules pretty clearly cover that, and if you are really interested the Book of Exalted Deeds goes into it further. It's one thing to kill to prevent people from coming to harm in one way or another. It's another thing to kill something just because it pings "Evil" or is of a race that tends to be evil (statistically speaking).

On the other hand, Pathfinder does seem to say that good people can reasonably decide killing goblin babies is a GOOD thing and then go and do it. That's perfectly ok by PF standards...even if it is completely against the alignment descriptions they've given. Yeah...alignment is about 10 times more incoherent in PF.
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Post by RobbyPants »

I wouldn't use the BoED as any type of calibrator for alignment issues. The book posits that it's okay to use lethal force to put down monsters, but not okay to use tranquilizers unless those tranquilizers only affect your enemies and not your friends. Also, it constantly flip-flops between The Great Wheel and Christianity, making as much sense as you'd expect that to along the way.
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Post by virgil »

Drachasor wrote:On the other hand, Pathfinder does seem to say that good people can reasonably decide killing goblin babies is a GOOD thing and then go and do it. That's perfectly ok by PF standards...even if it is completely against the alignment descriptions they've given. Yeah...alignment is about 10 times more incoherent in PF.
Man, I remember this one scene in one of PF's adventure paths; the goblins in the camp kept their five goblin children in a dirty cage. I was the only one in the party who didn't want to stab them in the cage; half the session was me arguing against killing them in cold blood, until I had to take full responsibility and start trying to raise them.
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Drachasor
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Post by Drachasor »

RobbyPants wrote:I wouldn't use the BoED as any type of calibrator for alignment issues. The book posits that it's okay to use lethal force to put down monsters, but not okay to use tranquilizers unless those tranquilizers only affect your enemies and not your friends. Also, it constantly flip-flops between The Great Wheel and Christianity, making as much sense as you'd expect that to along the way.
I wouldn't say it's that bad. It has a bizarre bit or two, but otherwise has seemed fairly solid to me.
virgil wrote:
Drachasor wrote:On the other hand, Pathfinder does seem to say that good people can reasonably decide killing goblin babies is a GOOD thing and then go and do it. That's perfectly ok by PF standards...even if it is completely against the alignment descriptions they've given. Yeah...alignment is about 10 times more incoherent in PF.
Man, I remember this one scene in one of PF's adventure paths; the goblins in the camp kept their five goblin children in a dirty cage. I was the only one in the party who didn't want to stab them in the cage; half the session was me arguing against killing them in cold blood, until I had to take full responsibility and start trying to raise them.
Yeah...some people are really bloodthirsty that way.
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Post by Username17 »

Drachasor wrote:
RobbyPants wrote:I wouldn't use the BoED as any type of calibrator for alignment issues. The book posits that it's okay to use lethal force to put down monsters, but not okay to use tranquilizers unless those tranquilizers only affect your enemies and not your friends. Also, it constantly flip-flops between The Great Wheel and Christianity, making as much sense as you'd expect that to along the way.
I wouldn't say it's that bad. It has a bizarre bit or two, but otherwise has seemed fairly solid to me.
You are wrong.

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Drachasor
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Post by Drachasor »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Drachasor wrote:
RobbyPants wrote:I wouldn't use the BoED as any type of calibrator for alignment issues. The book posits that it's okay to use lethal force to put down monsters, but not okay to use tranquilizers unless those tranquilizers only affect your enemies and not your friends. Also, it constantly flip-flops between The Great Wheel and Christianity, making as much sense as you'd expect that to along the way.
I wouldn't say it's that bad. It has a bizarre bit or two, but otherwise has seemed fairly solid to me.
You are wrong.

-Username17
I think you try to hard to find things to rail against. Two of the sample heroes in the first chapter don't have anything to do with gods or the outer planes. You seemed to ignore that bit. You seemed to complain about a good Mind Flayer for no discernable reason. And you complained about redeeming evil creatures, when this makes a lot of sense in D&D -- fewer evil souls going to the Lower Planes. Also the bit on evil creatures going to an afterlife of torture really isn't specific on whether they are tortured or do the torturing (and both can happen to evil creatures that die).

You also seem to confuse the fact that the Upper Planes in D&D are indeed embodiments of Pure Goodness. That's just how the cosmology works. It's not crazy at all to suggest that a good character would be more in synch with elements of the Upper Planes, and this does not in any way suggest they are religious.

While it does use a lot of terms traditionally associated with Christianity, these terms can also be used in a more secular fashion. So overall I think you go out of your way to complain about the book.

Regarding the Doctrine of the Double Effect bit, it IS the case the a Paladin loses their status if they knowingly commit an evil act. That's how the D&D world works. This is just applying it to exalted characters in general really. The other way they could have gone, I suppose, was to be inconsistent with their own source material.

I'm not saying it is perfect. Far from it. Certainly it has a lot of problems with the mechanics it provides. The bits on ethics, however, are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be. It is plagued a bit by wording that's not as clear as it could be.
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Post by Username17 »

Drachasor, I'd try to rebut your original points, but you do not appear to have any. You have a confused word salad that rambles between incoherent thoughts. You do not appear to have any idea of what a coherent moral theory is or any experience with what any of them look like. So your attempt to rebut a condemnation of the Book of ED for having an inconsistent and terrible moral theory comes off as ignorant, petulant, and confused by turns.

Go back and read it again. And again and again if necessary until you understand what is being complained about. Here, I'll give you some simple bullet points:
  • The Christian concept of "Divine Perfection" is incompatible with the existence of "Evil Gods". Once you posit the existence of Evil Gods, the entire Theodicy collapses.
  • To define "Good", or indeed any word at all, requires the use of words that are not synonyms for the word you are attempting to define. Defining a word merely as its list of synonyms means that you've just read a thesaurus, not that you've actually presented any information or made any claims at all.
  • Justice and Mercy are not the same fucking thing, and you can't blithely claim that any one or any thing is represented by both unless you draw a very careful demarcation on where one ends and the other begins.
We can go into some of the more complicated points, like how presenting a gel that turns people you don't like into dying sex slaves as "good" is extremely fucked up at a later date. Before we can even get there we have to get you to the point where you understand that neither Tautologies nor Contradictions convey any information.

-Username17
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Post by Voss »

vagrant wrote:So once again, Voss - if you prefer playing Friendship is Magic, that's your thing. But casting your personal mores as an objective ruleset to claim that parts of a fictional setting in which you play murder-hobos that kill and loot for cash and blowjobs is somehow inherently offensive...is fucking stupid.
Great. And when I cast my personal mores as an objective anything, I'll let you know first.

Just... let me know when you have an actual argument, rather than spouting shit about what you incorrectly believe to be my personal worldview.
But that seems about as likely as MGuy backing up his ridiculous claim that the setting is half-assed so DM's can 'fill in the blanks.'
Last edited by Voss on Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Orion wrote:"Not as bad as Alien" doesn't mean much in this context, since Alien is in fact a monster rape movie that some people do find too upsetting to watch. It's also way more upsetting than Succubi are in core.
Yeah, people need to be careful when invoking Alien because there's three big reasons the film gets a broad cultural stamp of approval, and even that's with the caveat that yes, it is much too upsetting for many people.

1. Arguing that something is too unpleasant to be art is the kind of thing that will likely elicit an "Oy vey" and a long-winded monologue that goes nowhere from your art professor. Drawing that line is super tough and most of us don't want any part of it.

2. The film is so effective that its sheer competence becomes a buffer against criticism--the level of craft in that movie compared to most of its peers is absurd.

3. Finally, and most importantly, because of its tone and perspective: Alien is a movie about violation that is for the most part super, duper unsexy. By the time Ripley strips down to her undies enough crazy shit has gone down that most dudes in the audience are too busy worrying about their orifices to really be in the mood for gawking at her. The entire movie preps you to feel afraid for a woman being alone, undressed and under assault by a monster and that visceral reaction of empathy for the victim on the part of most audience members strips away a lot of the most worrying and exploitative sexual politics that accompanies most horror movies in which young women are attacked in their underwear. There's really no doubt where people's sympathies lie with Alien: if you tried arguing that Ripley would have had it coming people would stare at you like Hitler was growing out of your forehead. In short, Alien takes rape seriously enough to make an entire movie about it, and to many people that's less offensive than having a movie or book feature just a pinch of rape.
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Post by infected slut princess »

Wow, Alien is such an awesome movie. People who complain about it are fucking retards.
Oh, then you are an idiot. Because infected slut princess has never posted anything worth reading at any time.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Whipstitch wrote:Yeah, people need to be careful when invoking Alien because there's three big reasons the film gets a broad cultural stamp of approval,
Yeah "people" do need to be careful. Because I'm a fan of John Carpenter's "The Thing".

And those two films and the "broad stamp of cultural approval" have big issues.

The Thing is a broadly superior movie in all respects. And even in this respect it's monster is both more monstrous and terrifying and significantly less "rapey".

But when it came out critics panned it for being "Too Unpleasant" all over the place and it pretty much died right there. Alien came out and, thanks largely to it's MEDIOCRITY was regarded as "acceptable" if not "brilliant" by the same fucking dumb ass critics and we had an endless parade of sequels that while sometimes ok were often terrible and never came close to approaching the sheer brilliance of The Thing.

So yeah "people" be careful talking shit about about broad cultural approval and Alien how dare you attack Alien's broad cultural approval and success that is has for no fucking reason and doesn't even deserve in the first fucking place.
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Post by Whipstitch »

I'll ride for John Carpenter any time, but that doesn't make Alien a mediocre film. Also, you're basically frothing at the mouth for no reason. I say this because my post was responding to someone who was defending a depiction of weird rape shit by referring to the relative quantity of rape in another work, something which is really misguided for the reasons I already mentioned. Whether a film or book is bad or trivializing rape is not simply a "Is rape mentioned?" Y/N toggle.
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