DDN, I'm just a trolling you all!

[Previn]

You are not the target audience. You've only seen the movies, the Old Republic means absolutely nothing to you, and noone cares.

Well, I care, so clearly someone cares, and the 'Old Republic' was mentioned by Obi-Wan in the original movie when he's talking to Luke, so yeah, it does mean something to me.

For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire.

[sabs]

So you have everything you need there for context.

Kotor isn't before the Old Republic. Given that the Old Republics lasted for Thousands of Years.

Even without knowing anything about the books or movies, you can see that Kotor isn't "before the old Republic". It's during. That's like saying Knights of the Jurassic Period happened before the Jurassic period, because it happens a million years before the end of the Jurassic period.

It's just freaking dumb. And you're ignorant on the subject, and whining that you shouldn't be ignorant, even though you don't want to read anything about the subject.

[Previn]

So you have everything you need there for context.

Nope.

Kotor isn't before the Old Republic. Given that the Old Republics lasted for Thousands of Years.

Old Republics? There were more than one? Is that a typo? I'm not being argumentative, I really have no idea if that is a typo or there were multiple Old Republics.

I thought we had 1 republic that lasted for thousands of years, and only got renamed after 'The Republic' was created in Return of the Jedi as Sashi stated, ignoring that Obi-Wan calls something the 'Old Republic' before the establishment of the new Republic.

Even without knowing anything about the books or movies, you can see that Kotor isn't "before the old Republic". It's during.

I have a game title: Knights of the Old Republic and you're telling me that it's during the 'Old Republic,' and John Magnum is telling me that it's hundreds of years before 'The Old Republic,' and well, it looks like you guys can't even agree with each other, because, oddly enough I never knew that there was a game called Star Wars: The Old Republic until I read this thread and tried looking up this bit of Star Wars info to find out what the heck the Old Republic actually was.

It's just freaking dumb. And you're ignorant on the subject, and whining that you shouldn't be ignorant, even though you don't want to read anything about the subject.

There isn't any whining about not knowing the obscure and confusing facts of to Star Wars. There is an issue with being told that we should know them because "it was perfectly clear what "The Old Republic" refers to" when it very obviously was not clear. Like it or not Kaelik had a very salient point about the use of The/the Old Republic.

[Chamomile]

Obi-Wan is presumably referring to the Republic as Old because it has already been replaced by the Empire.

Also worth noting that the break in continuity caused by the Empire is significant for no other reason than because they bothered changing the name for once. The Republic has in the past been turned into a theocracy and some time after that nonsense was sorted out had its de facto control over much of the Galaxy reduced to almost nothing, and in both cases was considered to have survived even after the significant reorganization that followed in the wake of both of these events (the Pius Dea take over and the New Sith Wars, respectively; yes, the Pius Dea takeover is the result of some extremely stupid person deciding that Warhammer 40K would totally work in Star Wars, but it's still on the timeline). The Empire's political reshuffling doesn't seem any more significant than that.

[Voss]

Obi-Wan is presumably referring to the Republic as Old because it has already been replaced by the Empire.

Also worth noting that the break in continuity caused by the Empire is significant for no other reason than because they bothered changing the name for once. The Republic has in the past been turned into a theocracy and some time after that nonsense was sorted out had its de facto control over much of the Galaxy reduced to almost nothing, and in both cases was considered to have survived even after the significant reorganization that followed in the wake of both of these events (the Pius Dea take over and the New Sith Wars, respectively; yes, the Pius Dea takeover is the result of some extremely stupid person deciding that Warhammer 40K would totally work in Star Wars, but it's still on the timeline). The Empire's political reshuffling doesn't seem any more significant than that.

I think the operating assumption is that the name change is pretty political. The Republic itself is falling to shit pretty well before the Emperor takes over, and the various factions just don't like each other. In this case 'being better than the Old Ways' is the more savvy political stance to take. Presumably after the other interregnums, a 'return to the old ways' was the effective political moxie.

Though that said, every incarnation of the Republic ever portrayed comes across as a Confederacy of Idiots, so it doesn't really matter much.

[K]

Like it or not Kaelik had a very salient point about the use of The/the Old Republic.

What was it? How does any discussion of anything in Star Wars hinge on the use of the term "The Old Republic" vs "The Republic?"

I'm honestly curious and not trying to be dick.

[Parthenon]

Also in KotOR (which takes place before The Old Republic)

Hey real quick, what is the name of Kotor all spelled out again?

This whole discussion is stupid and Kaelik is being fucking retarded again.

There is a game called Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. There is also a game called Star Wars: The Old Republic. The second one is an MMO set 300 years after KotOR.

So, when Darth Rabbit was saying SW:KotOR takes place before SW:TOR, he is stating an actual fact, not something about the old republic being the republic while it is occurring or whatever else.

[codeGlaze]

Getting upset with people familiar with the EU (Extended Universe) using shorthand lingo is sort of silly. Especially on these forums where so many acronyms fly around on a regular basis.

[Previn]

Like it or not Kaelik had a very salient point about the use of The/the Old Republic.

What was it? How does any discussion of anything in Star Wars hinge on the use of the term "The Old Republic" vs "The Republic?"

I'm honestly curious and not trying to be dick.

Starting with "Also in KotOR (which takes place before The Old Republic) the Jedi are anti-love."

Kaelik then asked "Hey real quick, what is the name of Kotor all spelled out again?"

To me, I knew what KOTOR stood for, but I had no idea how the KOTOR took place before "The Old Republic" because there was nothing in context to tell me what it was.

Kaelik was pointing out that that was confusing, and "if someone wants to talk about SWTOR, they should use some term besides The Old Republic." Which was a good idea because yes it could easily be confusing, especially to someone who had only seen the movies and wasn't keeping up with the extended universe. I.e. someone like me, whom it did confuse.

A couple posts later we got: " it was perfectly clear what "The Old Republic" refers to, especially given the context." Which, well, is just wrong. If I have to google The Old Republic to find out it's actually a video game, and there is no actual context clues that tell me this, then it is not perfectly clear from the context. I would never have been able to determine what "The Old Republic" was from the context of Darth Rabbitt's post. It looks to me like he's confused or doesn't know what he's talking about.

Getting upset with people familiar with the EU (Extended Universe) using shorthand lingo is sort of silly. Especially on these forums where so many acronyms fly around on a regular basis.

I'm not upset about people using shorthand lingo. I'm upset about people who think that everyone should be instantly up to date on the same somewhat niche facts they are.

[Chamomile]

That The Old Republic is the name of Bioware's extremely well-known Star Wars MMORPG is extremely common knowledge. It is entirely reasonable to believe that people in the conversation have not been living under a rock.

[codeGlaze]

That The Old Republic is the name of Bioware's extremely well-known Star Wars MMORPG is extremely common knowledge. It is entirely reasonable to believe that people in the conversation have not been living under a rock.

That's not what was, and can be, confusing.

@Previn : The comment wasn't really directed at you. It was more directed at the argument that started this.

[John Magnum]

I'd better make sure not to refer to Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones as "Attack of the Clones", because what if people don't know that's the name of a movie and not just the name of an in-universe event?

[RadiantPhoenix]

I'd better make sure not to refer to Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones as "Attack of the Clones", because what if people don't know that's the name of a movie and not just the name of an in-universe event?

It wouldn't be confusing because the event is "the Clone Wars" and the series, "the Clone Wars," is about the Clone Wars and not just a tiny part of it.

SWTOR is about one specific point in time during the existence of the Old Republic.

[unnamednpc]

Well, yeah, but some time after events of (the movie) Return of the Jedi, it turns out the Emperor had cloned himself a bunch of times. These clones would later undertake aggressive actions. In-universe, it would be possible to refer to these actions as [the] attack of the clones [of the Emperor].
That is, like, suuuuper confusing to literally millions of people who know that particular part of EU history.*

*EU history, in this case, clearly referring to the Star Wars Expanded Universe, not the European Union. Context, people!

[codeGlaze]

Well, yeah, but some time after events of (the movie) Return of the Jedi, it turns out the Emperor had cloned himself a bunch of times. These clones would later undertake aggressive actions. In-universe, it would be possible to refer to these actions as [the] attack of the clones [of the Emperor].
That is, like, suuuuper confusing to literally millions of people who know that particular part of EU history.*

*EU history, in this case, clearly referring to the Star Wars Expanded Universe, not the European Union. Context, people!

Pretty sure if you were referencing that horrible story line you'd use the canon terms for that period.

Which I guess is "Dark Empire".

[Previn]

That The Old Republic is the name of Bioware's extremely well-known Star Wars MMORPG is extremely common knowledge. It is entirely reasonable to believe that people in the conversation have not been living under a rock.

No, it isn't. I have roughly 60 contacts in my phone. Maybe 3 of them would know that there was a video game called Star Wars: The Old Republic.

When you say Bioware to me, I know they did the Mass Effect and Dragon Age games, and that's it (I've never played either). Despite what you may believe, a lot of people have interests that don't mirror yours.

[Chamomile]

I've never played a single Bioware game in my life. The overwhelming majority of video games people talk about are ones I have not played and know little about, but I still know that they exist. I know what movies are coming out. I know what bands are currently relevant. Despite not having seen a single sporting event in over a decade, I can match a lot of famous teams to their cities and recognize big rivalries. Congratulations for having plugged yourself into an entire community that lives under a rock, but every other person on this forum can be relied upon to be familiar with one of the biggest games of 2012 and which to this day splatters its ads all over the internet.

[Previn]

I've never played a single Bioware game in my life. The overwhelming majority of video games people talk about are ones I have not played and know little about, but I still know that they exist. I know what movies are coming out. I know what bands are currently relevant. Despite not having seen a single sporting event in over a decade, I can match a lot of famous teams to their cities and recognize big rivalries. Congratulations for having plugged yourself into an entire community that lives under a rock, but every other person on this forum can be relied upon to be familiar with one of the biggest games of 2012 and which to this day splatters its ads all over the internet.

You really don't actually understand do you? I cannot express how sad that makes me.

[Morat]

A couple posts later we got: " it was perfectly clear what "The Old Republic" refers to, especially given the context." Which, well, is just wrong. If I have to google The Old Republic to find out it's actually a video game, and there is no actual context clues that tell me this, then it is not perfectly clear from the context. I would never have been able to determine what "The Old Republic" was from the context of Darth Rabbitt's post. It looks to me like he's confused or doesn't know what he's talking about.

Gee, let's look at the post that triggered this idiotic tangent AKA the context.

In The Old Republic there's a side quest where you as a jedi padawan are asked to spy on two other padawans for their masters. The two padawans are in love. You can either follow the "light side" and tattle-tale on their love, or follow the dark side and cover up for them. The game is set before Yoda.

Okay, so its name is capitalized, it has preset quests that every jedi sees, and you have no more than two possible responses that produce ridiculous results. If you couldn't fucking figure out that The Old Republic is a video game from the context (I guess it could have been a fucking choose-your-own-adventure book if this was 1981), it's because you decided to skip the context and whine that nobody explained it to you.[/i]

[Previn]

A couple posts later we got: " it was perfectly clear what "The Old Republic" refers to, especially given the context." Which, well, is just wrong. If I have to google The Old Republic to find out it's actually a video game, and there is no actual context clues that tell me this, then it is not perfectly clear from the context. I would never have been able to determine what "The Old Republic" was from the context of Darth Rabbitt's post. It looks to me like he's confused or doesn't know what he's talking about.

Gee, let's look at the post that triggered this idiotic tangent AKA the context.

In The Old Republic there's a side quest where you as a jedi padawan are asked to spy on two other padawans for their masters. The two padawans are in love. You can either follow the "light side" and tattle-tale on their love, or follow the dark side and cover up for them. The game is set before Yoda.

Okay, so its name is capitalized, it has preset quests that every jedi sees, and you have no more than two possible responses that produce ridiculous results. If you couldn't fucking figure out that The Old Republic is a video game from the context (I guess it could have been a fucking choose-your-own-adventure book if this was 1981), it's because you decided to skip the context and whine that nobody explained it to you.[/i]

You are correct, I did totally miss the part about "The game is set before Yoda." in the quote of Darth's post. I must retract what I said and offer apologies to all involved. My mistake, sorry for wasting board space, I have no idea how I missed that.

[Fuchs]

It was actually my post.

[shadzar]

. http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... l/20131021 .

Monsters and Stories
Mike Mearls

Stop picking on James Wyatt, he is a retard but we love him and is doing exactly what he is getting paid to do.

[Voss]

Weird article, though obviously the shadzar version isn't related to reality. That could be an interesting backstory for a unique monster, or even class of monster (basically a faustian bargain for beautiful people, knowing that their looks will fade to insignificance anyway. Especially if there are charm/dominate effects worked into the decade); but there isn't any real reason to replace the Medusa story with, essentially, its thematic opposite.

Especially since they give a pretty basic way of getting the most out of the whole deal so the bargain actually doesn't suck- 10 years of awesome followed by the rest of life in peaceful seclusion, living high off the fruits of the bargain. Wallowing in wretchedness and spite is part of the curse of medusa, not living it up on an estate with blind servants. And even in D&D terms, you've got the potential for scores of wretched progeny if you follow the mythology to at least some degree, but nothing like it if you follow the new retcon.

[tussock]

The article is where Mike says he's going to be giving us more "game" and "worldbuilding" (like the GNS theory) text around the monsters. And then gives an example of something that is a completely unplayable piece of "narrative" monster history bullshit.

I mean, where's the agents who provide the "curse", how can PCs get one, what are the actual benefits over the good ten years, why doesn't a wish break the curse, where's an actual system for the Medusa's secret power and influence, how can we spot future Medusas, ... nothing playable, just bullshit. How can players interact with any of it?

All of it. It's like, (not a quote) "here's how you can tie Medusas into your D&D campaigns, by making them vastly more socially complex, and, uh, good luck with that!"

[shadzar]

Weird article, though obviously the shadzar version isn't related to reality.

oh really?

Wandering Monsters Archive | 7/9/2013

Monster Mashups
Wandering Monsters
By James Wyatt

See what happens? We've created an ecosystem, or part of one, and connected six different monsters—ettercaps, giant spiders, giant insects, pixies, hags, and araneas.

That's the way they all became the Wyatt bunch, with backstory.

but will the hags always be screaming for attention going "Ettercaps, ettercaps, ettercaps", and araneas have a lisp?

i mean really they are jsut trying to make a Brady Bunch of monsters and make they all work together in one defined way with a backstory for ALL of D&D, which defeats the purpose of having any settings.

It is becoming more the Gygax quote "You are playing D&D as it is written, or you are not playing D&D." because they are defining every last detail so that people will be constrained within them. every world wil be identical because every mosnter will be identically created X way.

for monster backstory, they should leave most of them alone, and especially the ones D&D did NOT create. Medusa, maybe they should put some additional reading appendix in the book and let people seek out Perseus, his mythical origin, the original Clash of the Titans movie, the new Clash of the Titans movie, or Percy Jack and the Lightning Thief movie. it is getting worse than Disney thinking it owns everything Alice in Wonderland though it doesn't yet NOBODY can make any film now of that story without approval from Disney because of their cartoon version.

most people actually knew of these mythical monsters before playing D&D when it began, now sadly the confusing of them by attempting to suck them into the D&D fold as a D&D creation is jsut stupid.

sure they can write whatever shitty novella they want for D&D created monster which as...which ones? Beholder? but the other thing, let the original source speak so people can LEARN the things that came from outside the game other than trying to claim D&D created them, or "here is D&D's version".

Let players pick whatever fucking version they want. does a hydra have legs? this is what the designers should pick because they need a mode of movement for it for combat. the fact if loses a head and grows 2 back, should remain unchanged.

like in my previous thread it is all about pet novellas rather than a game now, even to designers. these like Mearls, and Wyatt that couldn't write a good story if their life depended on it, so they write crappy stories in the rules of the game, and as adventures.