Why do people fetishize Magic Tea Party

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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

K wrote: There just isn't enough room for people who make grand pronouncements about the way that people should play and what rules they should be using
So: that's you.

If you thought that was me, you didn't read page 11, second comment from me item #2.

Which I've repeated so many times by now everybody must be sick of it. Which probably makes them wonder how you missed it.
...
when that person doesn't learn rules and thinks his improvised rules are better than anything that anyone else in the hobby could ever design....
Incorrect. Search this thread for the terms "Zak S", "customized".

This strawman is there identified and refuted.
Pretending to be an expert in something that you are ignorant about is damaging.
Like, say....what happens at game tables you aren't at?

So stop doing it, K.
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Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

I can shop around for better rules, but I cannot shop around for better friends. Believe me, I would if I could! Scarlet Manor does not offer a lot of good options.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Zak S wrote:Being such a dick that nobody wants to engage you usually insulates you from having to hear rational objections to what you say. Maybe that's, subconsciously, why you do it.
That's funny coming from the person who multiple people have asked to write in a non shitty way, and who has responded with "Fuck you, I'm going to keep writing this shitty way no matter what!"

But hey, I bet being rampant cock who constantly pretends to be able to psychoanalyze people over the internet discourages people from disagreeing with you too. That's definitely subconsciously why you do it. Maybe you even do it to your players every time they tell your your rulings suck, you tell them they have psychological problems, and it pisses them off enough that they just don't point it out.

But hey, keep "winning" this internet argument by calling everyone who disagrees with you dull witted and insane while making fun of DSM for enjoying arguments that use colorful language because it is holding back progress.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

Kaelik wrote:
Zak S wrote:Being such a dick that nobody wants to engage you usually insulates you from having to hear rational objections to what you say. Maybe that's, subconsciously, why you do it.
That's funny coming from the person who multiple people have asked to write in a non shitty way, and who has responded with "Fuck you, I'm going to keep writing this shitty way no matter what!"

But hey, I bet being rampant cock who constantly pretends to be able to psychoanalyze people over the internet discourages people from disagreeing with you too. That's definitely subconsciously why you do it. Maybe you even do it to your players every time they tell your your rulings suck, you tell them they have psychological problems, and it pisses them off enough that they just don't point it out.

But hey, keep "winning" this internet argument by calling everyone who disagrees with you dull witted and insane while making fun of DSM for enjoying arguments that use colorful language because it is holding back progress.
Pages and pages ago you were given a challenge--a way to prove the substance of your argument.

You gave objections.

The objections were all countered, then you went silent.

Now you've moved on to this. If you are unwilling to have your ideas tested yet can offer no counterexample of what hypothetical evidence that would disprove them would consist of, they aren't rational.

Until you can do that, everything you (particularly you) say is noise.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

K wrote:There is no war between rules-heavy people and rules-light people. There is a war between people giving bad design advice to people trying to write rules for their rules-light and rules-heavy games.
Yeah, because importantly rules lite games still have rules. You need to write them. They need to be good. They need to be good even more than in a rules heavy game because there are less rules and they therefore have a much heavier impact on play on an individual rule by rule basis.

If the ONLY rule your rules lite game had was "Punch the GM until they give you what you want" then there would be a hell of a lot of GM Punching.

A good games designer writing a rules lite knows this and puts a great deal of consideration into the few rules they design. A BAD games designer says "yay I'm writing no rules, so there are no limits and I can just fucking do whatever" and then gets surprised when their "heroic pulp action rules lite system" instead generates suicidal three stooges death adventures where everyone cooperatively drowns to death in a mundane bath tub*.

* actual thing that I saw happen
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Zak S wrote:Pages and pages ago you were given a challenge--a way to prove the substance of your argument.

You gave objections...

...then you went silent.
Sooo... a lot like that time you challenged yourself then.

Only without the bit where you failed to meet anything close to your own "on the fly" time limit on several levels, and were eventually coaxed into ALSO failing your own challenge in every other respect by NOT writing the perfect "won't come back and bite me on the ass" rules on the spot, or even coming remotely close.

Like that hey. Only. Not so bad because basically ALL he did was say "your challenge is fucking dumb".

Which it is.

"I'll fight you then!" is never a mature argument and is only ever resorted to by people who are massively losing the real argument.

Though I have to admit you are the FIRST bullshit lying internet RPG wank job who I have EVER seen in a single argument resort to "I'll rules/playtest fight you!" VERY soundly LOSE and then TRY IT AGAIN moments later.
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Zak S wrote:Pages and pages ago you were given a challenge--a way to prove the substance of your argument.

You gave objections.

The objections were all countered, then you went silent.

Now you've moved on to this. If you are unwilling to have your ideas tested yet can offer no counterexample of what hypothetical evidence that would disprove them would consist of, they aren't rational.
No, you didn't counter literally any of the objections. In fact you completely ignored the most important one, which is that if you admit that there is any test at all which could declare one method better than another, then by definition you are wrong with all your bullshit everything is just as good as everything else equivocation.

So either:

1) You are wrong.
or
2) You made a challenge which you don't believe will prove anything in bad faith because you wanted to whine about how I haven't addressed your bullshit challenge to your satisfaction every time I point out you are full of shit in this thread full of you being full of shit.

PS: The argument "pages ago" would be a lot more meaningful if those pages weren't filled with you making tons of posts with one sentence paragraphs that all happened in like a day.
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

PhoneLobster wrote: Sooo... a lot like that time you challenged yourself then.

Only without the bit where you failed to meet anything close to your own "on the fly" time limit on several levels, and were eventually coaxed into ALSO failing your own challenge in every other respect by NOT writing the perfect "won't come back and bite me on the ass" rules on the spot, or even coming remotely close.
Incorrect.

To see the inaccuracies in this statement re-read:

1. my first comment to you after your response to my challenge,
and
2.then follow my exchange concerning your and Frank's objections to the rule I invented.

The very last objection to the rule itself was raised by Frank, it was comprehensively countered and neither Frank nor you gave any response to it. Search "Zak S" "do-gooder" in this thread.

(The worst anyone's said so far about my rule is it makes NPCs act exactly the way they do in my game even without the rule. Which isn't much of a criticism.)

You are allowed to disagree that these things do not prove what I say they prove. You are not allowed to do so without giving any argument and meeting objections.
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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

Kaelik wrote: No, you didn't counter literally any of the objections.
That is a lie.

Search this thread "Zak S" "youtube"
In fact you completely ignored the most important one, which is that if you admit that there is any test at all which could declare one method better than another,
I don't admit it, I propose it would support your claim.

This is your claim: My way of doing things is worse. This is an explicit claim you have made.

If you believe this, and your belief is rational, then you must be able to propose a fact you could learn which would disprove it and a test that could discover it.

Say what that is now, or else apologize for believing an irrational thing.
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Post by nockermensch »

Sakuya Izayoi wrote:I can shop around for better rules, but I cannot shop around for better friends. Believe me, I would if I could! Scarlet Manor does not offer a lot of good options.
Holy fuck, the shitstorm here is so large that a touhou was summoned.
@ @ Nockermensch
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Post by gamerGoyf »

Edited for eyecancer
Zak S wrote: Incorrect. To see the inaccuracies in this statement re-read:

1. my first comment to you after your response to my challenge,
and
2.then follow my exchange concerning your and Frank's objections to the rule I invented.

The very last objection to the rule itself was raised by Frank, it was comprehensively countered and neither Frank nor you gave any response to it. Search "Zak S" "do-gooder" in this thread. (The worst anyone's said so far about my rule is it makes NPCs act exactly the way they do in my game even without the rule. Which isn't much of a criticism.)

You are allowed to disagree that these things do not prove what I say they prove. You are not allowed to do so without giving any argument and meeting objections.
Good golly you're really still going on about this? Given how thoroughly you lost that argument I'm surprised you brought it up again. PhoneLobster asked you to invent a subsystem on the fly. You presented them with a subsystem that lets people trade apples for castles and never rewards the Paladin for his good deeds. it was a bad system and if you actually implemented it in your game you would be worse off. You've been pwn'd deal with it
Last edited by gamerGoyf on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

gamerGoyf wrote:Edited for eyecancer
Zak S wrote: Incorrect. To see the inaccuracies in this statement re-read:

1. my first comment to you after your response to my challenge,
and
2.then follow my exchange concerning your and Frank's objections to the rule I invented.

The very last objection to the rule itself was raised by Frank, it was comprehensively countered and neither Frank nor you gave any response to it. Search "Zak S" "do-gooder" in this thread. (The worst anyone's said so far about my rule is it makes NPCs act exactly the way they do in my game even without the rule. Which isn't much of a criticism.)

You are allowed to disagree that these things do not prove what I say they prove. You are not allowed to do so without giving any argument and meeting objections.
Good golly you're really still going on about this? Given how thoroughly you lost that argument I'm surprised you brought it up again. PhoneLobster asked you to invent a subsystem on the fly. You presented them with a subsystem that lets people trade apples for castles and never rewards the Paladin for his good deeds. it was a bad system and if you actually implemented it in your game you would be worse off. You've been pwn'd deal with it
I would refer you to the counterarguments and information you did not address which refute your argument but you quoted where they are right in your post.

Since: Multiple examples of circumstances where paladins would be rewarded for good deeds are provided in the discussion there.

And since: You stated that in this system paladins are never rewarded.

That's proof positive you are completely insane.

You should not speak in public and should instead seek professional help for your reality-denial issues.

The sky is actually up and the center of the earth is actually down.

As for apples::
If someone gives someone enough apples i.e. agricultural goods worth money i.e. money then, yes, they can buy a castle.
Last edited by Zak S on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:17 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by gamerGoyf »

No you didn't refute my argument you moron. In your system you can stack several minor favors to get the King to give you his castle and that's not acceptable. On the other hand when the Ser Shinyarmor the Paladin does a major favor to the king like rescue the princes he doesn't get jack shit because you system can't handle unconditional altruism which also unacceptable. You system sucks because it doesn't produce genera appropriate results when you run standard fantasy tropes through it.

You we're challenged to come up with a social currency system on the spot and you fucking failed, because your system is bad.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

gamerGoyf wrote:No you didn't refute my argument you moron.
I think that the basic disconnect is he seems to think "Refute" and "Reply to" are the same thing.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Zak S wrote:
Kaelik wrote: No, you didn't counter literally any of the objections.
That is a lie.

Search this thread "Zak S" "youtube"
Okay, apparently I am going to explain this to you like the five year old you are, because this is like the 500th time you have said this stupid as fuck thing. I mean, surely as someone older than five you actually know this and are just arguing in bad faith, but it will be even funnier after you do it more after having this spelled out.

When someone says something, anything, about how you didn't counter their arguments/didn't propose a good ruling/didn't address their criticisms, they are not claiming that you never said anything vaguely about the subject. They are specifically claiming that your statements are not fucking satisfactory.

Now, I could go point by point through your objections, like how your solution to finding four random gamers is I find two and you find two, which makes no sense, because the point of finding random gamers is to reduce bias, not to fucking double down on both sides of the bias coin. Us each choosing two people is not going to be a sufficient random sampling to provide useful information.

See, I just adequately addressed how one of your many counterpoints was stupid as shit. But I really don't have to address every one of them in order to continue having a conversation, literally none of your fucking points are even close to meaningful, and I am not obligated to spend my time on this board addressing bullshit that I don't want to. In particular, I choose not to point/counterpoint your challenge because you specifically said nothing at all about the most important objection, which I did restate as will be talked about below.

So for god fucking sakes, can you stop saying "See X" like a petulant little child every time someone tells you something you don't want to hear? No one missed the asinine tripe you said, they just recognized it as asinine tripe.
Zak S wrote:
In fact you completely ignored the most important one, which is that if you admit that there is any test at all which could declare one method better than another,
I don't admit it, I propose it would support your claim.
So you proposed the challenge in bad faith knowing that no matter what the outcome you would not believe it demonstrated anything. Good to know.
Zak S wrote:This is your claim: My way of doing things is worse. This is an explicit claim you have made.

If you believe this, and your belief is rational, then you must be able to propose a fact you could learn which would disprove it and a test that could discover it.


I can point to many things that might disprove my theory, for example, the sales numbers of games based on different theories, or statistically significant polls or studies with controls for everything but the system. Or even psychology studies that aren't specifically of gaming, but relate to human nature on issues that can be applied to gaming.

But hey, instead of proposing a bullshit epeen measuring contest why didn't you just ask that question? I say that question even thought you didn't ask a question this time either, which leads me to my next point.

Zak S wrote:Say what that is now, or else apologize for believing an irrational thing.
See, this again. This is another five year old thing. See, everyone knows you are an arrogant prick. And you might think that is because you claimed that you make 100% perfect rulings in seconds that never ever backfire, but you would be wrong. We all knew you were an arrogant prick long before that. It is really easy.

See, the thing is, every single time someone says you are wrong about something, you say, "You didn't understand what I said/meant* if you didn't understand, why didn't you ask clarifying questions, you should have asked questions."

Then, every time you want to tell someone they are wrong, you turn around and say this shit quoted above. You literally never ask questions, you never ask clarifying questions, you never even consider for a second that you might not know exactly what people meant.

Instead you make absurdly stupid sounding demands as if you have any authority at all, and you phrase them in the most baldfacedly arrogant manner that they could possibly be phrased.

On this page, page 16, you have used a question mark once so far. You used it to make a rhetorical question that didn't address K's argument. On the other hand you have demanded that people:

1) accept you challenge.
2) Reread your posts (you have made this demand in literally every single post on this page).
3) Seek professional (presumably psychiatric) help.
4) Stop speaking in public.
5) Make a statement of evidence or apologize.
6) Stop talking about something that the person in question never talked about.
7) Demand they ask clarifying questions.

and you made empirical statements about what people are allowed to do (which includes the statement that they are not allowed to disagree with you unless they present their arguments to you, something patently stupid and false).

It is the mind blowing hypocrisy of your method of "discussing" in which you demand from others extremely specific and often irrelevant responses instead of asking questions, but whine about how anyone who disagrees with what you plainly said or doesn't find your arguments compelling must ask an assortment of clarifying questions to narrow down your future goal post shifting before they can criticize what you said that indicates you are an arrogant prick.

So if you don't understand something, ask clarifying questions instead of making up bad faith challenges or demanding that someone say something. You shitfuck.

*You use these words as if they are the exact same thing, regularly saying that you said a whole bunch of qualifiers and downright contradictions of your previous statement that you did not in fact say, but may have meant. But they are not the same thing.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

gamerGoyf wrote:No you didn't refute my argument you moron. In your system you can stack several minor favors to get the King to give you his castle
Only if you stack higher than all benefits of all other interested parties, provably insane person.

That's in the original rule. Re-read.
Last edited by Zak S on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Zak S »

Kaelik wrote:filler filler filler
they are not claiming that you never said anything vaguely about the subject. They are specifically claiming that your statements are not fucking satisfactory.
Then address them and describe why.

Any nutjob on the street can go "The theory of gravity is not satisfactory".

Zak S wrote:
In fact you completely ignored the most important one, which is that if you admit that there is any test at all which could declare one method better than another,
I don't admit it, I propose it would support your claim.
So you proposed the challenge in bad faith knowing that no matter what the outcome you would not believe it demonstrated anything.
No, I proposed it as science.

I don't believe your claim, you do. You should run a test.
Zak S wrote:This is your claim: My way of doing things is worse. This is an explicit claim you have made.

If you believe this, and your belief is rational, then you must be able to propose a fact you could learn which would disprove it and a test that could discover it.

I can point to many things that might disprove my theory,



FUCKING FINALLY! WAS THAT SO HARD???

for example, the sales numbers of games based on different theories,
or statistically significant polls


Oh no no no no you claimed my way was universally worse not just less popular or less likely to work for a majority..

(unless that is what you meant--is that what you meant? In which case, see page 11 my second comment, item #2.)

By your logic, again, right handed scissors are better than left handed ones.

Try again.

or studies with controls for everything but the system.


So do at least one.

Remember: your proof requires your method to always be superior for all groups. So any group will do.

Have a GM run it both ways.

According to your thesis, all other things being equal, no possible group could like r-n-r better than RAW

You literally never ask questions,


You have now contradicted observable reality.

Search the thread for (for example) "Zak S" "dire consequences"--I ask that clarifying question several times.

I ask several questions right here in this thread.

This (again) demonstrates you're an insane person and what you have to say doesn't matter.

1) accept you challenge.

And why wouldn't you? If done, it would prove you right and you could stop this discussion and logic that seems to disturb you so much.

2) Reread your posts (you have made this demand in literally every single post on this page).


Because the argument has become repetitive and you are literally requesting or denying already-provided facts and information, this is:

A) Efficient for anyone reading along (they won't have to read the same shit twice)
B) Saves us both time
and
C) Highlights the absurdity of ignoring arguments and facts you wish to ignore.

3) Seek professional (presumably psychiatric) help.
4) Stop speaking in public.


That is the appropriate and responsible thing to do If I, say, ask lots of questions in a thread and in general and someone does not demonstrate the ability to comprehend that fact.

5) Make a statement of evidence or apologize.


This is how debates work--defend your claim or rescind it.
6) Stop talking about something that the person in question never talked about.


Citation needed.

7) Demand they ask clarifying questions.

If the alternative is "assume bullshit" this is definitely the appropriate course of action.

Since the "You never ask clarifying questions" thing is such an obvious "moon made of green cheese" insane assumption, you don't have a leg to stand on in any debate and you are irrelevant until you address that.
Last edited by Zak S on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by gamerGoyf »

Zak S wrote:Only if you stack higher than all benefits of all other interested parties
If your system allows "apple stacking" where one minor favor gives +1 two minor favors gives +2 and those add linearly your system is fucktarded. Your solution only make your system even worse motherfucker because apparently every time you roll to cash in a favor with the king you have to somehow roll against everyone else who has a competing interest. That's literally unplayable

Also you a read your posts that is why I am continuing to complain about how you type like a tool. It's not that haven't read you arguments they just have not convinced me because they are wrong, you are wrong, and it's becoming increasingly clear that you are fractally wrong. Your post are stupid and the only result of engaging you thus far has been even more stupidity spewed from your festering ignorance hole.
Last edited by gamerGoyf on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Number of things you didn't address: legion.
Number of times you claimed that no one is allowed to talk to you unless they address literally everything you say: two.
Number of rhetorical questions asked: one.
Number of actual questions: zero. EDIT: after you edited your post, this became one. That sucks, I am disappoint.
Number of allegations of insanity: three.
Number of times you demanded someone address something: four.
Number of times you said that if they don't they should stop talking: two.
Number of times you recognized obvious hyperbole as hyperbole: one.
Number of times you pretended not to recognize obviously hyperbole as hyperbole in a futile attempt to score rhetorical points and/or to justify later accusations of insanity: one.
Number of times you blatantly lied about what I said (in this post, not counting last time): one.
Number of times you will apologize: zero.
Number of times you have or will demand apologies from others: uncountable infinite.

So let's get down to brass tacks: 1) I never challenged you to anything, because I do not give a fuck. EDIT: You apparently realized that and retracted your stupid response for a different stupid response where you ask me why I don't prove you wrong to end a discussion with a challenge you have already admitted wouldn't change your mind and therefore would fail to the end the discussion. Gee, I wonder why I won't do something that would accomplish literally nothing.
2) You have absolutely no idea what a scientific test would even begin to look like.
3)
Zak S wrote:you claimed my way was universally worse not just less popular or less likely to work for a majority

...

Remember: your proof requires your method to always be superior for all groups. So any group will do.

Have a GM run it both ways.

According to your thesis, all other things being equal, no possible group could like r-n-r better than RAW
Looks like you need to ask a whole lot of clarifying questions. You fuckface.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
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Post by Zak S »

gamerGoyf wrote:
Zak S wrote:Only if you stack higher than all benefits of all other interested parties
If your system allows "apple stacking" where one minor favor gives +1 two minor favors gives +2 and those add linearly your system is fucktarded.
It isn't. You never asked about the increments considered bonus-worthy so your entire comment is textbook

"Rather than ask a clarifying question, I assumed bullshit and yelled about it"
every time you roll to cash in a favor with the king you have to somehow roll against everyone else who has a competing interest...literally unplayable
Playtested it last night, actually. Competing interests cancel in the case of most requests, works so far.

We literally played it so it is not literally unplayable and you are literally wrong.
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Zak S wrote:Playtested it last night, actually. Competing interests cancel in the case of most requests, works so far.
That's a nice source you have there, very unbiased, much credibility.
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Post by gamerGoyf »

Zak S wrote:It isn't. You never asked about the increments considered bonus-worthy so your entire comment is textbook

"Rather than ask a clarifying question, I assumed bullshit and yelled about it"
Zak this you
wothless fuckass wrote:However, the baseline of these bonuses would only include the differences between bonuses of competing factions and interests. So, for example if you gave an apple (+1) and a competing interest gave 2 apples (+2) then that would be a +0 for you and a +1 for the competitor.
literally describing apples stacking under your system.
Zak S wrote:Playtested it last night, actually. Competing interests cancel in the case of most requests, works so far.

We literally played it so it is not literally unplayable and you are literally wrong.
No. Fuck you. Fuck you mendacious oozing shitslurry. It's essentially guaranteed you "played" your system the same way people "play" Shadowrun matrix rules you just threw a social system themed magic tea party. Of course you could prove me wrong, post your entire system then we'll see if it's workable or not.
Last edited by gamerGoyf on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zak S
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Post by Zak S »

Kaelik wrote:Number of things you didn't address: legion.
Ask them now and they will be answered.

No "Why are you a fuckface" or "are you still beating your wife" questions allowed, however.
Number of rhetorical questions asked: one.
Number of actual questions: zero. EDIT: after you edited your post, this became one. That sucks, I am disappoint.
You can't count.

Search this thread for "Zak s""where did you" and the previous one.
Number of times you recognized obvious hyperbole as hyperbole: one.
If it was hyperbole, then that's another mistake you made.

Hyperbole is by definition imprecise. Precision is vital in discussing game design. Employing hyperbole makes the conversation slower and makes improving games slower.

So don't do it.
Number of times you blatantly lied about what I said (in this post, not counting last time): one.
Citation needed.
I never challenged you to anything, because I do not give a fuck.
Then do not discuss matters you do not care about, insane person.
2) You have absolutely no idea what a scientific test would even begin to look like.
Then describe it.

Or,if you "do not give a fuck", put the keyboard down and walkaway and do not talk about other peoples' games again.
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Zak S
Knight
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:06 am

Post by Zak S »

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Zak S wrote:Playtested it last night, actually. Competing interests cancel in the case of most requests, works so far.
That's a nice source you have there, very unbiased, much credibility.
No matter how biased we'd know if we were literally unable to play,which is the claim on the table
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 15054
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Zak S wrote:Ask them now and they will be answered.
No you fuckface, I already said them in the post before last, and you ignored them.

But hey, while you are not addressing things, remember when you quoted a post that had numbers 1-3, and you abruptly cut off after two?
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
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