Virgil wrote:Bull. Getting away with thwarting Elminster is a matter of MTP and house rules, based on how the DM feels like he'll react
This is horseshit apologia. Elminster has fucking stats. Beating him isn't even difficult. He only gets to automagically win if and because the DM breaks the rules for him. The Lady of Pain has no stats. It literally just says you can't beat her and if you do anything she doesn't like she'll put you in a condescending timeout or straight up murder you. And furthermore, that she'll do this
whether or not you had any reason to know it was something she didn't like.
Seriously. That is what it fucking says. There is absolutely
no comparison between the Lady of Pain and
any other big penis NPC that has
ever been written for
any setting. Even the Immortal Elves of Shadowrun weren't that fucking insulting, because they only got to automagically win in a direct confrontation. The Lady of Pain gets to automagically murder you without even being there. Really. It fucking says that. She gets to know what you're saying and what you're thinking and put you on timeout in a maze automatically because fuck you.
It is hands down, without exception, the most insulting character that has ever been written in any context. If it didn't come with a cool picture, it wouldn't have any fans at all. It has no redeeming features from a literary or game structural standpoint. It opens no narrative doors and closes too many to count. It serves no conceivable purpose except to marginalize the choices made by the other players at the table.
virgil wrote:It takes fvcking obscure readings to find evidence that the Lady does more than keep out the gods and the city not on fire, especially judging by the overall Planescape fan's interpretation.
Are you fucking high? First of all, let's look at her fucking description on wikipedia:
Wikipedia wrote:The Lady is sometimes seen as a floating, robed, giant-sized woman with a mantle of blades around her expressionless face. She has never been heard to speak aloud, although she may communicate through her servants, the dabus. She can cause her victims to sprout wounds with a glance, and her shadow can flay the flesh from their bones.
Her obvious objective is maintaining the balance within Sigil, by throwing defilers and denizens who anger her into one of her magical mazes. Often, she will only interfere when the very balance and stability of Sigil is threatened.
The Lady is an entity of inscrutable motives, and often those who cross her path, even if accidentally, are flayed to death or teleported to one of her Mazes (an almost inescapable pocket universe in the Ethereal Plane).
Got that? Flaying victims and causing people to explode by looking at them funny is the
second sentence in her wikipedia description. The thing where she throws people she doesn't like into mazes is sentence
three, and the thing where she flays people to death and/or dumps them into inescapable extraplanar dungeons because they accidentally ran into her is sentence
five. How fucking far did you read this character bio? Because the thing where she wanders around auto-killing people for lulz is
five sentences into her description. This is not fucking obscure. I submit that it is literally impossible for you to read any actual Planescape material without finding the evidence that the Lady of Pain is a giant interventionary douche.
As to actual Planescape fans, no they don't fucking hide from how much of a Mary Sue the Lady of Pain is. They revel in it. Check out what happens when people
Ask About LoP stats.
She's similar to Ao of FR... you don't need stats so much as a personality, because her spells per day and spells known entries are simply "Yes."
If there are stats for it, it can be defeated. The Lady isn't supposed to be defeated, so there have never been official stats for her.
She doesn't care how powerful characters are. Whatever is the highest level characters can attain in the setting, she is still far more powerful.
It's generally considered taboo amoung Planescape lovers to want to stat the LoP as far as I can tell.
That's a light way of saying it. More precisely, it's SACRILEGE. See, the Lady is a metaphysical concept given a name and general form. She exists in a way that other beings don't, more akin to an elemental than anything else really.
Giving the Lady of Pain stats is like giving anger stats. It just defeats the entire point of the concept to begin with.
On a related note, what concept the Lady personally embodies changes with the telling, and if you're a smart cutter, you won't carry that chant too far, lest you walk the mazes.
Berk, we dunnae even stat the Dabs.
Their are some things that should always be some "You loose" things in RPG's.
That would be one of them.
Mess with the Lady. You loose. You don't need stats for that.
I could whip up stats, but she's probably BEYOND epic. Like ECL 2000 beyond...
You note how
not one person apologized or walked back
any of the Lady of Pain's wankery? Not one. Planescape fans only try to make excuses for the Lady of Pain when they realize they are in polite company and people no longer think unbeatable NPCs that serve as prosthetic penises for the DM to cock slap players with are socially acceptable. When they are among their own kind they whip their dicks out and jerk off to how much the Lady of Pain can do anything and overwrite any choice or ability of any player character at the slightest whim from the DM.
All the time. Wherever they congregate.
-Username17