Revenge of Threads that Make Us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[ubernoob]

There were bad apples...

Yeah, some of those people were pretty sick.

Very nice.

[Kaelik]

Then I have to agree with the assessment. I think Polymorph does grant spellcasting according to the rules, though I can definitely see why it would be houseruled. Spellcasting is not a supernatural ability, nor a spell-like ability and Polymorph grants extraordinary and natural ones. Doesn't really matter which one it is.

And this is precisely the point of my argument that Polymorph being on someone's spell list should not dictate tier placement, since a Single Wizard can just devote a few 4th level slots to give the entire party Cleric spellcasting at level 20 for the day, and so the fact that the Factotum can cast it himself wheras the fighter has his friend cast it on him in no ways changes the fact that you are now talking about a party of level 14 characters all of which can cast Implosion.

I think Factotums really do need Font of inspiration. No class should actually be pretty much obligated to take any specific feat...

I think that the feat was added precisely because without it Factotums are actually relatively weak. I wish instead they just errataed the inspiration progression to be more at all levels, with an emphasis on low ones. That way Factotums could actually take other feats, and you wouldn't have the issue of level 20 Factotums that win init and then take 32 consecutive standard actions.

A feat that scales better as you take it more is just a bad idea.

They would have less ranks without multiclassing though. Well, I am not sure if it can be acquired by a feat, so I am not saying anything for sure. However, Rogues are able to use it as well, so I agree with you.

Fewer ranks isn't that big a deal when you are just going to optimize it (it's a skill for goodness sakes) until you always hit the maximum amount (I think it caps at 9d6).

Use magic device really is a boon for Rogues. Also, I think people often exaggerate the problem crit immune creatures impose. There majority of monsters are not immune, after all

Indeed, but a few level 1 wands makes all the difference in the world, because the fact that most creatures aren't immune means those wands will last you a very long time. (For me, I only ever need one of each for the campaign.)

There was an excellent TWF Rogue floating around the WotC board some months ago. Granted, it was not full Rogue (had Swashbuckler and something else). I really like those.

Well the Pounce Rogue is a Barbarian 1/Rogue X where Barbarian is Lion Totem and with the Whirling Frenzy Variant. Giving him 6 attacks a round at level 10 on the pounce.

The Flanking rogue should probably actually use a Rod of Tentacles now that I think about it, but he takes the Penetrating Strike Variant (which only works when flanking, and has no effect on undead who are flat footed for example) and then arranges to always flank with himself through careful optimization of feats and maybe a dip, it's been awhile since I've looked at that.

At that point he has guaranteed half SA damage against anything, because Penetrating Strike is in no way precision damage or SA, and just happens to do damage based on half your SA dice.

Especially when you compare it to the sucky weapon enchantments that give +1d6 elemental damage...

Well of course, but I wouldn't waste my time comparing it to something that useless.

Ah, nice! From Complete Scoundrel?

Yes.

[Tshern]

And this is precisely the point of my argument that Polymorph being on someone's spell list should not dictate tier placement, since a Single Wizard can just devote a few 4th level slots to give the entire party Cleric spellcasting at level 20 for the day, and so the fact that the Factotum can cast it himself wheras the fighter has his friend cast it on him in no ways changes the fact that you are now talking about a party of level 14 characters all of which can cast Implosion.

Agreed.

I think that the feat was added precisely because without it Factotums are actually relatively weak. I wish instead they just errataed the inspiration progression to be more at all levels, with an emphasis on low ones. That way Factotums could actually take other feats, and you wouldn't have the issue of level 20 Factotums that win init and then take 32 consecutive standard actions.

Again agreed, the low levels are really inspiration-dry.

A feat that scales better as you take it more is just a bad idea.

Wonder how WotC managed to avoid that error with Multispell and Improved metamagic. That would've crowned their design.

Fewer ranks isn't that big a deal when you are just going to optimize it (it's a skill for goodness sakes) until you always hit the maximum amount (I think it caps at 9d6).

And the skill check isn't that difficult. However, at low levels Factotums would probably be a bit better at it, while middle levels on they'd be pretty much equal due to improved magic item availability.

Indeed, but a few level 1 wands makes all the difference in the world, because the fact that most creatures aren't immune means those wands will last you a very long time. (For me, I only ever need one of each for the campaign.)

The campaign must be really special if those wands are losing their magical power like ice loses volume on a stove. So again, agreed.

Well the Pounce Rogue is a Barbarian 1/Rogue X where Barbarian is Lion Totem and with the Whirling Frenzy Variant. Giving him 6 attacks a round at level 10 on the pounce.

A little more multiclassing would give BAB of +16 without actually sapping the rogueish nature of the build. However, that wasn't the point, so again I agree.

The Flanking rogue should probably actually use a Rod of Tentacles now that I think about it, but he takes the Penetrating Strike Variant (which only works when flanking, and has no effect on undead who are flat footed for example) and then arranges to always flank with himself through careful optimization of feats and maybe a dip, it's been awhile since I've looked at that.

Rod of Tentacles?

At that point he has guaranteed half SA damage against anything, because Penetrating Strike is in no way precision damage or SA, and just happens to do damage based on half your SA dice.

Aye.

Well of course, but I wouldn't waste my time comparing it to something that useless.

Indeed. Kind of like comparing Incantatrix's metamagic abilities to Barbarian's DR.

Yes.

I always knew it was worthwhile book...

[Leress]

Here is iaijutsu foucus

Use this skill to gather your personal energy (hi) in an iaijutsu duel .
Check: If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately
after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage,
based on the result of an Iaijutsu Focus check. In addition, if
you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu
duel, your Iaijutsu Focus check replaces your initiative
check for the ensuing combat.
In an iaijutsu duel (see Chapter 6), you and your opponent
make opposed Iaijutsu Focus checks, and the winner accumulates
extra damage dice according to the accompanying table.
You can also use Iaijutsu Focus in preparation for striking an
inanimate object, assuming no distractions . Your extra damage
is halved, just like your ordinary damage. This is the technique
martial artists use to shatter objects.

Check Result Extra Damage
10-14 +1d6
15-19 +2d6
20-24 +3d6
25-29 +4d6
30-34 +5d6
35-39 +6d6
40-44 +7d6
45-49 +8d6
50+ +9d6 (maximum)

[Kaelik]

A little more multiclassing would give BAB of +16 without actually sapping the rogueish nature of the build. However, that wasn't the point, so again I agree.

Well certainly subject to changes, but any multiclassing other then Barb should be saved until after level 11 when the Rogue can gain Superior TWFing via bonus feat.

And also, I really don't care if I have one more attack at 3 levels. Because honest to god I haven't played a character 5 levels straight in years.

Rod of Tentacles?

Meh, looked it up, not as good as I remember hearing, and some question as to whether SA even works with it. Better off going either TWFing or tentacle crazy through other means (Illithid Heritage and tentacle hooks, or elbow/knee/ect blades.)

Well apparently Iajitsu only works with melee, so the Hurler can't use it, but of course, a Flanker/penetrating striker or Pouncer can still take advantage of it. Of course, given that it only works on melee weapons, it's really not even as useful as SA.

[Judging__Eagle]

More lulz at andyjames in the "private" forum.

Can I see the link for that?

I'm a bit scattered and don't know what is being said there, but I have a BG account. Had one for a while apparently.

[ubernoob]

More lulz at andyjames in the "private" forum.

Can I see the link for that?

I'm a bit scattered and don't know what is being said there, but I have a BG account. Had one for a while apparently.

You need to make 12ish posts before you can see it. It'll become visible once you post enough. Alternatively, I could loan you my account info just to view it. It's not like you're going to start rampantly making my reputation worse than it already is.

[Kaelik]

More lulz at andyjames in the "private" forum.

Can I see the link for that?

I'm a bit scattered and don't know what is being said there, but I have a BG account. Had one for a while apparently.

You need to make 12ish posts before you can see it. It'll become visible once you post enough. Alternatively, I could loan you my account info just to view it. It's not like you're going to start rampantly making my reputation worse than it already is.

Is that even possible? Even I have more G-fu then you (well, less negative) so you are losing that popularity contest hardcore.

Edit: Apparently not. I have received -3 G-Fu since the only thread I have posted in was locked.

I guess someone is holding a grudge.

[Judging__Eagle]

I mean, what section is that thread in.

Because I can see and post in "Bitch like you have to."

[ubernoob]

I mean, what section is that thread in.

Because I can see and post in "Bitch like you have to."

That's it. Primarily in the Logic Fail Threads thread. Past 6 pages or so he's been baiting.

[Tshern]

I guess someone is holding a grudge.

There are some users who bump down the g-fu immediately after the 24 hour or 48 hour cool down is over. CountArioch suffers from the same thing.

[Judging__Eagle]

How do you give someone pos/neg G-Fu, b/c honestly, I don't see the interface for it clearly; and I want to give it out for the lulz.

Unless it's like on other boards where your rep affects how much you affect other people's rep.

b/c that's funny, i've been on private server game boards where talking about how watching someone else that i played with being good at what they did and why i played the class that they played gave me positive rep from random people that had stupidly high rep; and some people would try to cultivate massive negative rep for lulz, going to far as to ask for neg rep in their sig.

Edit:

Ubernoob, would you be able to show me where Kui-whateverthefucktheirnameis (the asshat that thinks I'm talking about religion and not you know history) when I make the relation that conversion from any belief system to an other doesn't happen 100% of the time?

Because that's not a "logical failure"; fuck, just look at any single religion or belief system and you'll see the same thing.

Christianity is a collection of beliefs on how to live. Just like all other religions.

All religions at their core are that, a collection of beliefs that help a group of people co-exist because they have rules that they know others around them will abide by. Christianity has been sprouting off as many branches and variants of itself since its inception.

As has every other religion.
Some key examples:
-Islam (Two major sects (Sunni/Shi'ite), I don't know how many minor ones. In some cases, these two sects have treated each other worse than they have treated other religions, usually because the two sects are the only different groups in the region that the violence took place in. If Christians/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists were around, they'd probably be the target of a lot of Sunni/Shi'ite violence. Muslim treatment of Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism isn't stellar; of course, these other religions aren't exactly not acting like assholes from time to time either
-Judaism (At least one well known "elitist" clique within it's group, plus several different forms of practice, some of them really stupid since they have more to do with European ghettoizing of the Jews, than the Jews own religious beliefs.
This last part actually makes me sad since it's the equivalent of having to wear "a pocket protector in your button up short sleeved shirt, polyester sweater vests, and black plastic rim glasses with taped-up bridges, so that 'normals' know your a geek" being somehow a requirement to join geek culture)
-Hinduism (It's ... over nine thousaaaand!!; I doubt that I have to explain this)
-Buddhism (Two major types; one is compassionate and reliant on the guidance and compassion of others who delay their final ascension to help other people, the other is more self-discipline based)


It's not a religion argument, it's an observation that people will never agree on things that they can't quantify, but feel strongly about.

Unfortunately, D&D is like a religion in some respects, and some people will cling to the more stupid parts of it, even when confronted with the questionable morality of their beliefs (some players must have sucky characters and must not be allowed to have effective ones) they won't change their tune or question what they previously learned.

Which is something that I believe needed to be pointed out.

Also, people tend to fall into 3 groups of acceptance:

1. Accept new things if the new things are believable, they may be flighty, but they tend to be early adopters and drop things that fail
2. Accept things given a lot of time and after much convincing.
3. Cannot accept new things, even when what they are shown is obvious and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The groups are like a bell curve with the middle being the median.

[Kaelik]

Yeah, I wonder about that g-fu too, I can't see any way to do it either.

[Tshern]

I think the g-fu thing has some post limit as well. Fairly sure of that.

[Judging__Eagle]

Nevermind, I found that thread and post.

The "search" function on BG works, which is a surprise, and then again not, since it's not the WoTC boards. The lack of a working search engine there was the real reason that everything was put into builds and links and compilations and stuff.

[ubernoob]

How do you give someone pos/neg G-Fu, b/c honestly, I don't see the interface for it clearly; and I want to give it out for the lulz.

Unless it's like on other boards where your rep affects how much you affect other people's rep.

b/c that's funny, i've been on private server game boards where talking about how watching someone else that i played with being good at what they did and why i played the class that they played gave me positive rep from random people that had stupidly high rep; and some people would try to cultivate massive negative rep for lulz, going to far as to ask for neg rep in their sig.

Aye, post count requirement. Basically that means that retards like AJ give/take it all the time while less prolific posters can't give it at all.

Edit:

Ubernoob, would you be able to show me where Kui-whateverthefucktheirnameis (the asshat that thinks I'm talking about religion and not you know history) when I make the relation that conversion from any belief system to an other doesn't happen 100% of the time?

Because that's not a "logical failure"; fuck, just look at any single religion or belief system and you'll see the same thing.

Christianity is a collection of beliefs on how to live. Just like all other religions.

All religions at their core are that, a collection of beliefs that help a group of people co-exist because they have rules that they know others around them will abide by. Christianity has been sprouting off as many branches and variants of itself since its inception.

As has every other religion.
Some key examples:
-Islam (Two major sects (Sunni/Shi'ite), I don't know how many minor ones. In some cases, these two sects have treated each other worse than they have treated other religions, usually because the two sects are the only different groups in the region that the violence took place in. If Christians/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists were around, they'd probably be the target of a lot of Sunni/Shi'ite violence. Muslim treatment of Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism isn't stellar; of course, these other religions aren't exactly not acting like assholes from time to time either
-Judaism (At least one well known "elitist" clique within it's group, plus several different forms of practice, some of them really stupid since they have more to do with European ghettoizing of the Jews, than the Jews own religious beliefs.
This last part actually makes me sad since it's the equivalent of having to wear "a pocket protector in your button up short sleeved shirt, polyester sweater vests, and black plastic rim glasses with taped-up bridges, so that 'normals' know your a geek" being somehow a requirement to join geek culture)
-Hinduism (It's ... over nine thousaaaand!!; I doubt that I have to explain this)
-Buddhism (Two major types; one is compassionate and reliant on the guidance and compassion of others who delay their final ascension to help other people, the other is more self-discipline based)


It's not a religion argument, it's an observation that people will never agree on things that they can't quantify, but feel strongly about.

Unfortunately, D&D is like a religion in some respects, and some people will cling to the more stupid parts of it, even when confronted with the questionable morality of their beliefs (some players must have sucky characters and must not be allowed to have effective ones) they won't change their tune or question what they previously learned.

Which is something that I believe needed to be pointed out.

Also, people tend to fall into 3 groups of acceptance:

1. Accept new things if the new things are believable, they may be flighty, but they tend to be early adopters and drop things that fail
2. Accept things given a lot of time and after much convincing.
3. Cannot accept new things, even when what they are shown is obvious and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The groups are like a bell curve with the middle being the median.

I think you handled that pretty well yourself on BG. Really, solid argument.

[Leress]

G-Fu

under your handle there are two options: Strong and Weak, those are the G-fu buttons.

[Judging__Eagle]

I forgot Taoism.

Which is funny since it's a personal favorite of mine, and I ... 'try' to walk that path.

The pleasant thing is that you can be a joint and cigarette smoking, whiskey drinking, painkiller-popping person with deep-set anger, trust and physical contact issues that gets into blunted and sharpened knife fights with a known group of people to release tension and still remain some semblance of Taoist.

Because the butcher at his block can 'be' just as much as the pianist playing perfectly with their eyelids closed.

Taoism is the philosophy of "you're right too, and so am I."

Two Taoists will practice differently, but they will never accuse the other of not being a Taoist.

It would be like someone saying that someone else who is talking isn't able to speak, and shouting for silence at the same time.

[ubernoob]

Anybody know when BG turned into Faelmax? Good, god. There used to actually be smart people there.

[Bigode]

Anybody know when BG turned into Faelmax? Good, god. There used to actually be smart people there.

I disagree; it was doomed right from when the entire CO seemed to decide it was their new lair.

[ubernoob]

Anybody know when BG turned into Faelmax? Good, god. There used to actually be smart people there.

I disagree; it was doomed right from when the entire CO seemed to decide it was their new lair.

Well, the old CO isn't the primary FAIL. JaronK is the only person over there FAILING that hard. Most of the fail is from the new kids (AJ, Innabinder, etc).

[Kaelik]

G-Fu

under your handle there are two options: Strong and Weak, those are the G-fu buttons.

Right, I think the point is that Judging Eagle and I don't have those buttons.

[Username17]

Anybody know when BG turned into Faelmax? Good, god. There used to actually be smart people there.

Yes, I do.

-Username17

[ubernoob]

Anybody know when BG turned into Faelmax? Good, god. There used to actually be smart people there.

Yes, I do.

-Username17

*Reads first post.*

This has potential. Thanks for the link.

[ubernoob]

Side note: character ideas based on two people. Seriously, don't get offended, this was all sort of written as I got the ideas.

I now have the idea for a pair of characters. One is an angry Awakened Dire bear barbarian that has adamantine teeth and a Maul of the Titans, and a Warforged fighter/rogue that relies on Mental Weaponry to fight and Mind Armour to protect himself.

The duo hate each other since one is an agent for the Logical Clockwork of Nirvana with rageahol issues that believes that nearly all organics are insane. So he tends to tell them that they act irrationaly, right now only his gf can put up with him, and that's because ... (she's programmed to// she's a Formian queen that hasn't settled down and likes to have 'intelligent' conversation with other logical beings, so she shapeshifts herself into something that can travel around easier//I'm not sure what else makes sense game setting wise).

While the other was an infant dire bear born in The Wildlands, to one of Bharri's great, great grand nieces. Early after his birth,. he had his brain stolen by a greedy planes-hopping Illithid raiding party and is now is a blesses/cursed with a mind of Living Stone of Asgardian Dwarve manufacture that was commisioned by his greatgreat-auntie that was made to save his life. The bear cub gets sent to do things that involve not getting your mind controlled by enemy wizards. Also Bharri thinks her nephew is cute when he's angry, even if he is a part-construct hunney-addict.

The bear cub's issue is that he wants a pot of hunney. More importantly, he fucking wants it now. The insane consumption of hunney is actually meant to sooth the inner-skull "itch" that having a brain of divine granite.

Either there's a hole in the roof of his mouth, or he snorts the honey up into his skull via his nose. I'm not decided

They work together because they need to stop some recuring villainess devil baronin, her three devil henchmen, and her hordes of evil minions.

They are....

"Big Guy and Little Bear"

[tbh, the smaller the bear is, the more awesome he appears when he rips open a Hezrou demon with a flick of his claws b/c "It wanted my hunney Big Guy!".

Since it's the "as age->0, power->infinity law" of comic book heroes. If they're a teenager, and you're an adult villan, you're going to get bruised the hell up; if they're a child, you're going to get beat within an inch of your life, if they're a toddler or infant kiss your self goodbye, also, your parents and grandparents get killed since the babies attacks go back in time.

That was just... incredibly funny. Thank you so much.

Full post:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards ... 1#msg73131