Revenge of Threads that Make Us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[ubernoob]

@Ubernoob

Let me clarify. Ordinarily, I think, regardless of whether one personally is offended, one should not assert that someone has used your work with attribution unless you are willing to take the time to clarify which work it was, and where it was used.

I was unaware at the time that Caedrus is a lunatic, which makes the whole thing rather irrelevant.

I'll take that in mind. Also, my link works now. Get it before the ninja mods delete it.

[Psychic Robot]

When Fael posts in a thread, is he accompanied by smoke and the weeping of children?

[ubernoob]

When Fael posts in a thread, is he accompanied by smoke and the weeping of children?

Yes.

Here's the particularly lol post before it gets ninja modded.

Stop pretending you're a different person. I know you have trouble understanding my posts, but everyone else seems to pull it off just fine. Maybe the problem is in your reading skills.

JaronK

It took you THAT long? God you're stupid. I've been dropping hints for the past seven pages. The fact that I had to outright state it at a forum I knew you lurked at just secures my knowledge that you're completely incompetent. I've had at least seven people come to me in private with the question of this persona since page 5 and they haven't even read the whole thread. How the fvck could you miss that many hints? Are you actually this incompetent that I had to state it for you to get it? Good god, you fail. In short, you're still completely outclassed and not worth my time.

Take a look at that thread. Where did TGH ever come into the discussion? Nowhere is damn right. I planted that for you, baby. The fact that you bit... makes you weak and stupid.

I'd give it a week tops before one of those accounts gets permabanned. Odds on TGH first.

This is more my style. I do *not* go behind peoples' backs. Blunt, rude, but it gets the point across.

[Username17]

Some guy is presenting examples of large numbers of mooks. Someone care to point out natural 20 only, and how large numbers of mooks are the only thing AoE blasts are good for so no one cares? Unlike most of the Paizos, he has some sense. So don't attack him.

Honestly the thread just seems to be people arguing about how the Power Attack feat "feels" and I honestly couldn't care less. Have some specific poster or statement that I can at least CTRL-F to? Because honestly, I think that I would seriously rather comb through an issue of Girls and Corpses than that thread.



-Username17

[Roy]

That was about the only part that was a somewhat sensible yet contrary argument. The rest is either smart people outnumbered, or some collective Epic Fucking Fail only solvable via carpet bombing. And of course just about anything about Combat Expertise is Epic Fucking Fail.

[Bigode]

That or I'm boring enough that no one has felt a need to tell me that I'm an idiot. That or I've forgotten the scathing post(s) that [Poster] made?

I've been known to be sharp enough to cut people, but I doubt that I'm the sharpest knife in the drawer. I tend to overlook shit all the time. Maybe I'm the meat tenderizer in the drawer?

The greatest idiots of all are those who fail to notice their idiocy clearly shown.

Except I didn't go back and do anything. There is no rule system or essay used, only one quoted post in the skill system used to frame a couple issues, clearly attributed to FrankTrollman (nothing about "squares" or "R/P/S" that you mentioned), and no post altered to give credit after it was posted. None of the things you are mentioning, even after Bigode's and Leress's posts, matches any of the findings they mentioned. Everything is the way it was before you left, and you know that as well as I do. I can have a dozen people who were there when you were corroborate this, not to mention the moderator logs. You're busted. Give up already. You're a proven liar.

Having only one quoted post is actually technically false - there are at least 2 as far as I went:

There's a couple of nested questions here. The first of course is to what extent a leveled character can be thwarted by mundane tasks and defeated by minor characters. Things to keep in mind:

* A level bonus rapidly outpaces differences in attributes. A best case stat modifier is a +9 and a worst case is a +4. So if level bonuses are involved, a character five levels up has basically no need for the services of a specialist five levels down save as a source of teamwork bonuses.

* An optional level bonus is inherently divergent. That is, if you can either add your level or not to a skill you will rapidly depart the RNG.

* Having powerful adventurers pick pocketed by gutter rats is not necessarily bad.

* Powerful characters should be able to do stupid shit like plowing fields before lunch, manning a ship by themselves, and forging siege engines of awesome power.

* If you can only learn languages after gaining a level, you might as well not be able to do it at all, because you won't gain a level until you conquer Mount Chaining, and then you won't be dealing with the Leopard Tribe anyway.[/list]

So what does that all mean?

It means that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you give people spendable ranks they will go off the RNG with each other. If you give everyone a Level bonus to throw around, the players have no use for low level sages and can't be harassed by child thieves. And if you don't give either of those things, players won't be getting nice stuff when they go up in level.

-Having a 4e style slugfest with every single kobold warrior is frustrating and boring. It makes heroes seem unimpressive. I don't want to do it.

-Having 3e style rocket launcher fights with boss monsters is frustrating and anti-climactic. It makes giant monsters seem like pussies. I don't want to do it.

Not implying those weren't duly credited, but they aren't just one. And I'm not counting the quotes in the articles that were released on public places, since I guess it doesn't count.

Can we get back to arguing game design and mocking all who oppose us? If I want drama, there are soap operas for that.

I did mock those who opposed me, why wouldn't I do it? He just stopped responding for a while.

Honestly, I don't know what argument Frank made.

If it's that big of a deal, the information should be open to anyone.

It's not like anyone would make money off of it anyway. Let alone fail to credit someone else.

There was talk of making an actual publication. Deciding whether to believe in the chance of that happening's left as an exercise to the reader. If anyone'd accuse me of leaking information, I'd gotten that impression as well from some forum post (can't quite recall which, I'm talking just about my impressions here), so I think it was implied outside his forum as well. Anyway, nothing concrete for now even in his forum. BTW: the above to you was a joke. I do think you caught it, though.

I object to you calling OW4 a bitch. Being a bitch is my job here!

Are you sure you're lesbian?

That's all I have to say on this not-even-funny debate. Besides, I predict our mods, upon forcing themselves to read through it, will want the drama and personal attacks to stop, so for once I'm going to try to not be one of the guilty parties.

Likely. At this point, I'm way too sank to do anything ...

(...)

Bigode. That misread did generate an hilarious bolding, though.

---

Roy fvcking delivers indeed. Although I wonder why people'd still spend time on Paizo anyway.

"TGH"?

---

News, bitches (even though the bitch isn't interested).

A)

Leader: Restores hp

Don't really want "healbot" to be a main role, heh.

Plus, healing is just a (rather narrow) subset of Negating Actions.

The real inherent "roles" in combat (as I see it) are: Removing threats (includes killing things or otherwise removing them from play), Negating Actions (healing is one aspect of this category. If you heal the damage done by an attack, that is indeed equivelent to the enemy having had less actions), Changing the Odds (Buffing and Debuffing and such), and Battlefield Control (manipulating people's available options and manipulating the flow of the battle). Things like the 4e roles are just wishy washy combinations and incarnations of those.

Decide for yourselves. If you decide it's Frank here, it's uncredited.

B) as said before, the moderator logs only show 2 instances of post editing, both by the same user, who isn't OW4. Meanwhile, looking at posts themselves shows numerous edited posts by OW4.

[Roy]

Roy fvcking delivers indeed. Although I wonder why people'd still spend time on Paizo anyway.

"TGH"?

TGH is The Godhead.

As for Paizo, mostly for the lols. It also serves as a testing ground for various experiments I run to heighten my analytical skills, and as a proverbial handicap. After all, it's much harder to get your opponent to understand your logical points when said opponent is a dumbfuck incapable of grasping logic and reason. Paizo has an abundance of said dumbfucks, so there's no shortage of entertainment and test material. So I figure if I succeed anyways I'm doing pretty damn well and if I fail it's still hilarious, so I can't really lose. I think I did convert a few of the bad ones though before the head of the Super Happy Fun Time hivemind got butthurt and perm banned me for bullshit.

[Judging__Eagle]

Bigode, trust me.

Lesbians can very much be other people's bitches. >:3

Bisexual girls as well.

Really, it all depends on their overall aggressiveness.

[Bigode]

Roy: I can respect that. But won't do it.

JE: I know. But I wanted to see what she'd say about it.

BTW, I wouldn't ever expect Koumei to be actually offended for being called a man - I did expect her to joke she was, and she disappointed me.

[Judging__Eagle]

Bigode:

Koumei is in the coral reef of heart-stinging sea rays farming for endangered fish that she will use to lure the Tasmanian Tiger to be her new war-mount.

I thought that I should mention that b/c she cannot post right now.

Hopefully the animated Turn Left sign-Golems and Rogue Fire Hyrants won't impede her return. Fortunately she earned one Foster's and should be able to scare them away with a beery stream of justice.

[Koumei]

...sorry, I forgot the other definition of bitch. I was using the older term of "She is a real bitch. She just set that guy on fire for no reason!" whereas you guys were using the "I'll make you my bitch!" term.

I can see how confusion arose. And really, people should not get offended by someone on the Internet doubting their sex saying anything whatsoever. So I'm hardly going to make a fuss about people suggesting I'm a man. Or not so gay that Stephen Fry says "I say, you're a homosexual". Or whatever.

[Talisman]

What are you guys talkibng about? I always thought "bitch" referred to a canine of the female gender!

...No wonder that girl was so mad! I was just comparing her to my hound dog!

Edit: Somebody lets their player play a barbarian with a Charisma of one. Not so much fail as flail, really. I admit, I got sucked into it.

[Psychic Robot]

I weep sometimes.

I've got to agree that the power rampup is evident, but it's not at all a bad thing, Markusdark. As someone mentioned, it gives incentives for players to purchase new books, or subscribe to the online service, as it gives them an edge over those with just the core books.

If Wizards aimed to sell 3 core books, and nothing more, they'd have made a terrible marketing decision. Power creep is *needed* to keep a game line vital and profitable. People are prizing 'balance' as if it's an ideal. Perhaps it is, from some gamers' standpoints. But think of it from the company's view - balance doesn't matter. Profit does. Fanbase does. Having an impetus to subscribe to the service, or buy new books, keeps the D&D4E brand thriving.

Some RPGs exist as stand-alone books, with no future supplements, and none intended. Those can make balance their ideal, certainly. But for something that's intended to have a long shelf life, to be a multiple-book brand 'franchise', like D&D... balance isn't an option. Fundamentally, many gamers simply won't buy a new book unless it's *better* - not just different, but better.

If you want 4e to sink, push for balance, by all means. If you want the game to succeed, power creep is a necessary thing, inevitable and *welcome* to many gamers.

Some of the "power creep" we will see is actually a balancing effort. It would be naive to think that the PH options are completely equal. That means we'll see some options get better, but that the top-end ability of classes won't increase.

/facepalm

Apparently, you have to buy the expansion pack that unlocks the Draenei and Blood--waaaaaiiiit a minute...

[Koumei]

Don't we already have Draenei and Blood Elves? Having not played much WoW, I can't really make the comparisons.

Also, you don't need MOAR POWER to sell more books. We all know that here. More options - diversity and shit. That can do just fine. You know, by doing what they're doing insofar as putting Druids in other books and stuff, and with no need to actually power them up.

[Bigode]

WTF, PR? The second quote's factually true, and will always be to some extent, since even the best games won't be perfect.

[Psychic Robot]

WTF, PR? The second quote's factually true, and will always be to some extent, since even the best games won't be perfect.

Yes, it is true, but my annoyance comes from their defending it even though the 4etards threw a shitstorm when I pointed out how exception-based design results in less balance because of the unforeseen aspects of how powers interact with one another. According to them, Magic is awesome and balanced.

[Kaelik]

Technically, Magic is balanced. Just like MVC II is balanced.

There is so much broken stuff that most people can't even keep track of all of it, much less pick the characters/cards to counter it.

It's actually a viable system, hell, at least it's interesting unlike 4e.

[RandomCasualty2]

Technically, Magic is balanced. Just like MVC II is balanced.

There is so much broken stuff that most people can't even keep track of all of it, much less pick the characters/cards to counter it.

Magic is kinda balanced because it's competitive, which is much easier to balance than a cooperative system.

The idea in magic is that not all cards are equal and that you use strategy to build good decks. So it's okay if deck concepts like a green control deck don't work. Because people just won't use that and will use something else. In competitive games having incorrect choices is fine, it is in fact encouraged.

In RPGs however, this is not the case. You want most character types to be viable choices. So that one guy can play Conan, the other guy can play Zorro and a third guy can play Merlin and they all work out.

That's considerably harder than writing a game like Magic where you can just write down a bunch of card effects and see what happens. Because bad choices are fine in a game like magic, but bad choices in RPGs are newbie traps and are poor design.

[Kaelik]

Technically, Magic is balanced. Just like MVC II is balanced.

There is so much broken stuff that most people can't even keep track of all of it, much less pick the characters/cards to counter it.

Magic is kinda balanced because it's competitive, which is much easier to balance than a cooperative system.

The idea in magic is that not all cards are equal and that you use strategy to build good decks. So it's okay if deck concepts like a green control deck don't work. Because people just won't use that and will use something else. In competitive games having incorrect choices is fine, it is in fact encouraged.

In RPGs however, this is not the case. You want most character types to be viable choices. So that one guy can play Conan, the other guy can play Zorro and a third guy can play Merlin and they all work out.

That's considerably harder than writing a game like Magic where you can just write down a bunch of card effects and see what happens. Because bad choices are fine in a game like magic, but bad choices in RPGs are newbie traps and are poor design.

Thank you for condescending to tell me about something I already know. I was talking about Magic and MvC for a reason.

Now back to your regularly scheduled bitching.

[JonSetanta]

Also, you don't need MOAR POWER to sell more books. We all know that here. More options - diversity and shit. That can do just fine. You know, by doing what they're doing insofar as putting Druids in other books and stuff, and with no need to actually power them up.

I proposed this in tg and got bitchmoaned at, called a moron, etc.

My idea was that rather than break the RNG further with every splat, there would be more worlds, more races, and more recombinations of the same spells, classes, and items in new ways with different styles to them.
Sometimes there would be more crunch, but always in breadth not boosting power.

RPG sales would essentially come from making and expanding settings rather than yet more Fighter fixes and spells (or similar)
Expanding a world never did Forgotten Realms any wrong.

[Bigode]

...sorry, I forgot the other definition of bitch. I was using the older term of "She is a real bitch. She just set that guy on fire for no reason!" whereas you guys were using the "I'll make you my bitch!" term.

Sorry. And I didn't at any point choose the machist sense intentionally - it's just that, well, that's the one that's used here all the damn time. Meanwhile, while you might light people IRL, you don't really succeed at being "a real bitch" here - you do succeed wonderfully at being a clown. The saddest part of this' that you'll make a point of not being offended ...

Don't we already have Draenei and Blood Elves? Having not played much WoW, I can't really make the comparisons.

Also, you don't need MOAR POWER to sell more books. We all know that here. More options - diversity and shit. That can do just fine. You know, by doing what they're doing insofar as putting Druids in other books and stuff, and with no need to actually power them up.

My point to PR still stands, but mostly what this fine guy said here.

[Roy]

Because I now run a mother fucking Pizzeria:

First, I'm only 'all bashing and no assisting' to the total fucktards, as the x - 3 or so people can attest to where x is the total forum population.

Second, this is about the hundredth time you have whined about a single post. Get over it fucker.

Third, Conjuration is the best school of magic.

Proof:

Discuss.

[Username17]

Just curious, where did that post come from?

-Username17

[IdleHands]

It comes from here.

The post has since been moved to the trash, but the thread remains. As for the post itself, I'll just say that it was because of another poster's gripe about BG's karma system in a different thread, and how he basically kept repeating the same gripe. At page 19, he managed to make Meg angry, and he just kept going... and going... and going... until the thread was locked.

[Username17]

What have we learned today?

1. BG's Fu system is fucking retarded.
2. I can't tell what Elensar's points actually are.

-Username17