Pathfinder

[Koumei]

due to rule negative two.

Is that one the "Fuck you" rule where the DM gets to shit in your tea just to punish you for playing his game?

[Kaelik]

due to rule negative two.

Is that one the "Fuck you" rule where the DM gets to shit in your tea just to punish you for playing his game?

No it's "If there are two interpretations of a rule, then you always use the one that screws the players."

You are thinking of rule negative three, "Even if there is only one possible interpretation, willfully misread the rule anyway, and make up an interpretation that screws the player. Then use that one."

[Hicks]

And then there is rule -1 * (infinity + [W] + 1), where W = whatever number of rule you just you said: I can always leave game and go do something I find more entertaining.

You can always leave the game; Unless the DM is John Kramer, unless you are Chuck Norris.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Is it okay if I hijack this thread for some build advice?

Basically I'm planning on making a tiefling wizard + arcane archer + eldritch knight gish as a fighter type with the ability to stay relevant at higher levels. Tiefling is there to get all martial weapon proficiency. I was planning on taking Thassilonian Specialist Conjuration and basically staying far away and shooting stuff and throwing summoned pets into the fray.

How dumb is this idea? Should I go sorcerer instead? Should I try and be a spellslinger, assuming I can adapt arcane archer to work with guns?

[K]

Eldritch Knight is pretty useless if you can get a Skillful weapon from Complete Arcane. It offers 3/4 BAB for your HD with that weapon (same or better BAB up to 12th level and two or less worse at higher levels).

Not losing a caster level your whole career is totally worth losing a point of BAB or two at high levels when you don't care about delaying your fourth iterative attack coming online.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Skilful weapons, good catch. Though I'm not interested in being a primary caster since the rest of the group is laying stupidly multiclassed people, so I figured I should get in on the action.

Also, is there a way to get still, silent and eschew on all my spells without using PrCs? Ideally some sort of metamagic cost reducer would be best (they're all +1 metamagics), but I can't remember any in PF offhand.

[K]

I guess I'd ask why you want all of those things?

Arcane Armor Mastery is a PF feat that reduces ASF by 10% and the greater version offers another 10%, so you can just wear armor and cast spells if you have one hand free. Hell, animated shields are still a thing in PF so it's not much of a sacrifice.

If you have access to Frostburn, you can use Snowcasting and blue ice armor to just not have ASF at all.

Eschew Materials is a feat, but is a +0 metamagic.

Silent Spells doesn't even have a benefit unless you are in a silence spell.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Still/Silent/Eschew is mainly a novelty. Being able to cast while bound, gagged, naked, face-deep in elf coochie and so on could save lives, but I have no idea how often that will come up. So I'm tending towards not having it and cursing out the GM for ambushing me in the middle of bondage sessions with drow dominatrices.

[K]

Sounds like you want to be a Sorcerer. They are perfect for the "I just need to cast one spell Silenced and Stilled so I can break free and then it's go time." In a game where you don't have to worry about being a main caster or optimizing for raw power, it's ideal for that.

Human Sorcerer is also really good in PF. In PF they also get Eschew for free.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Got it. Thanks for enduring me.

EDIT: Is there a way in PF material to gain proficiency with all martial weapons without spending a class level? A feat, a trait, or something? I think Militia in one of the 3.5 books covers that, and then Arcane Archer provides all martial weapon proficiency, but I can't think of anything like Militia in PF.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Is it okay if I hijack this thread for some build advice?

If you absolutely must do something stupid like that, the Hellknight Signifier grants arcane casting and 3/4ths BAB.

If you're allowed to use Complete Mage crap, it's not particularly difficult to end up with a 3/4ths BAB character that never sacrificed a single arcane spell level.

[virgil]

Arcane Armor Mastery is a PF feat that reduces ASF by 10% and the greater version offers another 10%, so you can just wear armor and cast spells if you have one hand free. Hell, animated shields are still a thing in PF so it's not much of a sacrifice.

I can say that animated shields are iffy, because their ASF &ACP remains while they're animated.

One thing to keep in mind, even if you're using a spell without somatic components, you still need to make a concentration check (DC 10+spell level+CMB). Past the lower levels, it's really iffy that you can cast anything if it's involving a monster. Being tied up isn't much better, because the rope uses the same CMB as the knot-tier (which would be base+5).

[Slade]

Arcane Armor Mastery is a PF feat that reduces ASF by 10% and the greater version offers another 10%, so you can just wear armor and cast spells if you have one hand free. Hell, animated shields are still a thing in PF so it's not much of a sacrifice.

I can say that animated shields are iffy, because their ASF &ACP remains while they're animated.

One thing to keep in mind, even if you're using a spell without somatic components, you still need to make a concentration check (DC 10+spell level+CMB). Past the lower levels, it's really iffy that you can cast anything if it's involving a monster. Being tied up isn't much better, because the rope uses the same CMB as the knot-tier (which would be base+5).

Speaking of Concentration checks in Pathfinder, Feather fall requires one to roll it by RAW.

[K]

Arcane Armor Mastery is a PF feat that reduces ASF by 10% and the greater version offers another 10%, so you can just wear armor and cast spells if you have one hand free. Hell, animated shields are still a thing in PF so it's not much of a sacrifice.

I can say that animated shields are iffy, because their ASF &ACP remains while they're animated.

You use mithral shields. Cuts the ASF to 0% for light shields and bucklers, and 5% for heavy shields. Tower shields are still a mess.

So basically all arcane spellcasters in PF and 3.X should just have a mithral light shield or buckler as basic optimization, especially as it can be enchanted for bigger bonuses.

In PF, you can use a mithral heavy shield and a mithral Breastplate with Greater Arcane Armory Mastery for a total of 0%.

[Archmage Joda]

Well, last time I asked questions on this thread, I inquired about Thassilonian Specialization, and got a very informative treatise on the matter from Frank. So now I'd like to ask, which are the best specializations for normal specialization? I know Conjuration is up there, and the Diviner's initiative boost makes it a contender, but what of illusionist, or necromancer?

[Mask_De_H]

They're all pretty bad outside of:

Enchanter, which Frank already noted.
Conjuration (Teleportation), which gives you a slightly worse Abrupt Jaunt at level 1 which becomes a complete fuck you to melee types in the interim levels before Fly.
Divination due to the Initiative and for going off the RNG
Divination (Foresight) for an aura of caster level and DC bonus.

[sabs]

Illussion's special powers suck except for:
Greater Invis power @ 8th.
The real power of illusion is more colour spray castings per day

[icyshadowlord]

Arcane Armor Mastery is a PF feat that reduces ASF by 10% and the greater version offers another 10%, so you can just wear armor and cast spells if you have one hand free. Hell, animated shields are still a thing in PF so it's not much of a sacrifice.

I can say that animated shields are iffy, because their ASF &ACP remains while they're animated.

One thing to keep in mind, even if you're using a spell without somatic components, you still need to make a concentration check (DC 10+spell level+CMB). Past the lower levels, it's really iffy that you can cast anything if it's involving a monster. Being tied up isn't much better, because the rope uses the same CMB as the knot-tier (which would be base+5).

Speaking of Concentration checks in Pathfinder, Feather fall requires one to roll it by RAW.

Where has that been stated?

[Username17]

OK. You nominally have like 8 base options (with several sub options each) as a Wizard Specialist.

• Abjuration. Abjuration is a small and shitty school, known almost exclusively for Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor. D. Anchor and Guards & Wards and the Glyphs and shit are all prepared in downtime, so it doesn't even matter if you have Abjuration as a banned school in Pathfinder. The Abjuration school abilities aren't even good. Fuck this school.
• Conjuration. An awesome school full of awesome. And if you take either the Teleportation or Creation subschool ability lists you get very useful powers both at first and 8th level. You are not going to be an Infernal Binder, not even if you want an Imp Familiar.
• Divination. Having extra divination spells is not particularly good. Most Divination spells don't need to be cast every day or even every week. However, the base ability is a fat bonus to initiative and the subschools introduced are straight powerups from there.
• Enchantment. Enchantment has been gone over already. It's good. The alternate subschools are actually kind of shit. You're mostly taking this for the bonus to social skills, because that synergizes well with Charm Monster.
• Evocation. Evocation is a crap school. The only thing you miss from banning it is Contingency, and that's cast in downtime so in Pathfinder you don't even lose it. Ban this shitty school. There might be some stuff you could do with the Evocation Subschool of Lingering Evocations, but that requires a rather generous reading of ability interactions. See Rule Negative Two.
• Illusion. The primary draw of the school is that the spells are boss and having more of them is good. You probably want to be a Mage of the Veil because it gives a bonus to Bluff and Stealth, and you would probably like to have that. The only ability you care even slightly about is having your figments last an extra couple of rounds, which is mildly interesting sometimes and will probably come up a few times in your career.
• Necromancy. No one knows how this is supposed to fucking work. It either works like Turn Undead (which is useless) or it works like Turn Undead and Channel Energy (which is actually kind of a lot of party healing). If you can convince your MC that it lets you blast out healing bursts several times a day like an actual Pathfinder channeling Cleric, it's actually kind of OK. The subschools are not worth even looking at funny.
• Transmutation. Do not be a specialist in Transmutation. It is the biggest school, but it also has more filler than any other school. It has more filler proportionately than any other school. We're talking about bullshit like Fins to Feet. There are enough gems in here that you probably aren't going to actually ban it, but the school abilities are incredibly terrible. Even if you wanted to cast Transmutations all day, I would still suggest being a Conjurer, Enchanter, or Illusionist and just using the rest of your spell slots to prepare Transmutations.
• Universalist. You are not going to be a Universalist. In Pathfinder you already don't have any real disadvantages by taking Abjuration and Evocation as your "banned" schools. So not having to take banned schools is not even a thing.

-Username17

[CapnTthePirateG]

[*] Necromancy. No one knows how this is supposed to fucking work. It either works like Turn Undead (which is useless) or it works like Turn Undead and Channel Energy (which is actually kind of a lot of party healing). If you can convince your MC that it lets you blast out healing bursts several times a day like an actual Pathfinder channeling Cleric, it's actually kind of OK. The subschools are not worth even looking at funny.

-Username17

Wait, I thought you said necromancy spells kicked ass. And doesn't Command Undead allow you to have a larger skeleton pool because you transfer skeletons from animate dead to command undead via ordering them to fail saves?

[Slade]

I can say that animated shields are iffy, because their ASF &ACP remains while they're animated.

One thing to keep in mind, even if you're using a spell without somatic components, you still need to make a concentration check (DC 10+spell level+CMB). Past the lower levels, it's really iffy that you can cast anything if it's involving a monster. Being tied up isn't much better, because the rope uses the same CMB as the knot-tier (which would be base+5).

Speaking of Concentration checks in Pathfinder, Feather fall requires one to roll it by RAW.

Where has that been stated?

It is stated: Falling: 20 + spell level Concentration check required to cast while falling (Extreme Violent moment while casting)

Feather Fall has no special line being except from the PF Concentration rules.
3.5 version had this line: "You can cast this spell with an instant utterance, quickly enough to save yourself if you unexpectedly fall."

PF removed that.

PF Falling rules (environment section not the Concentration section):
"A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall. Casting a spell while falling requires a concentration check with a DC equal to 20 + the spell's level. Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface."

They did make the feat Uncanny Concentration in Ultimate Magic that makes you auto suceed on movement related checks though.

Alsop the spell: The spell can be cast only on "one Medium or smaller free-falling object or creature/level."(CRB)
If casting on yourself rather than another creature, you must already be falling in order to cast the spell ergo you are required to make the concentration check for casting while falling.

[Username17]

[*] Necromancy. No one knows how this is supposed to fucking work. It either works like Turn Undead (which is useless) or it works like Turn Undead and Channel Energy (which is actually kind of a lot of party healing). If you can convince your MC that it lets you blast out healing bursts several times a day like an actual Pathfinder channeling Cleric, it's actually kind of OK. The subschools are not worth even looking at funny.

-Username17

Wait, I thought you said necromancy spells kicked ass. And doesn't Command Undead allow you to have a larger skeleton pool because you transfer skeletons from animate dead to command undead via ordering them to fail saves?

Necromancy spells do kick ass. But the Necromancy school abilities are shit on a plate (unless you actually get the Channel Energy ability out of the Power Over the Undead ability). If you were going to be a Necromancer in Pathfinder, you'd be a Thassilonian Specialist. An extra spell per level per day is a lot more than you get out of 8 rounds of lifesight.

-Username17

[hogarth]

There's also the elemental wizard schools (air, earth, fire, water, metal, wood), of which Earth has clearly the best spells (Grease, Glitterdust, the Pit spells, Stinking Cloud, etc.), but which don't have any abilities that you give a damn about after level 3 or so (except maybe Earth Glide, depending on the setting).

[K]

Void has an ability to inflict a no-save penalty to saves equal to half your caster level to one monster for a round a number of times per day equal to your Int bonus. The downside is that is costs a standard action, but when you get to a level to start tossing down quickened spells and true SoDs you aren't going to care.

The spells aren't great overall, but there are enough interesting ones to fill out the bonus slots and not feel cheated.

[Username17]

Void has an ability to inflict a no-save penalty to saves equal to half your caster level to one monster for a round a number of times per day equal to your Int bonus. The downside is that is costs a standard action, but when you get to a level to start tossing down quickened spells and true SoDs you aren't going to care.

The spells aren't great overall, but there are enough interesting ones to fill out the bonus slots and not feel cheated.

Yeah. Warning: it adds Wizard spells to your spell list at the normal level you'd normally get them. I don't even.

-Username17