Not a Conspiracy

[PhoneLobster]

Er...

Oh, man can we please talk about Zion Protocols! I always wanted to do that. Or how about Illuminati! Or trilateral commission! Or masons! I really want to know the truth about Area 51. I mean, THE REAL TRUTH. Tell me about it, please!

As it turns out... at least some of that stuff is real to varying degrees.

Free Masons are real. They are a real group who are genuinely secretive about much of their membership and ceremonies. But they are openly active in many communities, including mine there is a Masonic hall (with a discrete sign on and everything) in the main street of a most nearby towns in my region. There are Masonic parks and even a Masonic retirement village right near here.

As to the main aspect of the Masonic Conspiracy theory, their feud with Catholics and their nepotism in job selection processes... That's basically entirely real too.

Now the other thing on the list that is real is Zionism.

Unlike Masons it isn't exactly like the conspiracy theory. It's rather different.

There aren't secret Jewish banker cabals running a shadey world government or something. You can pretty much ignore the entire "Protocols of the Elders Of Zion" that things a big pile of trash.

But there ARE openly self proclaimed "Zionists" using open political power, openly, in Israel in order to follow their own idea of a Zionist agenda that involves killing an oppressing Palestinians. Openly.

[Kaelik]

Free Masons are real. They are a real group who are genuinely secretive about much of their membership and ceremonies. But they are openly active in many communities, including mine there is a Masonic hall (with a discrete sign on and everything) in the main street of a most nearby towns in my region. There are Masonic parks and even a Masonic retirement village right near here.

As to the main aspect of the Masonic Conspiracy theory, their feud with Catholics and their nepotism in job selection processes... That's basically entirely real too.

PL. The conspiracy theory is not that they are an organization that arranges a vast network of connections so people can get good jobs. That is exactly what they are. Who wouldn't join an organization that's primary purpose in existence is to get you a cool job (secondary purpose: have someplace to drink with your buddies). I would if it weren't for the bullshit "must believe in God" shit.

The conspiracy of the free masons is they secretly run everything and enact policies that somehow effect people who aren't members.

[PhoneLobster]

The conspiracy of the free masons is they secretly run everything and enact policies that somehow effect people who aren't members.

They never secretly ran everything.

But there WERE periods in the past. The recent past. Where they had significant power within major political parties, and even more notably, within the public service in Australia and England.

And they really DID enact policies that effected non-members. Especially the infamous black balling of Catholics.

Edit: And hell YEAH the conspiracy theory is that they are a secretive job network with strange paddle spanking ceremonies behind closed doors. People actually are out there who don't believe that and dismiss the very existence of Free Masons at all as a "conspiracy theory". No, really.

But anyway. Free Masons... actually real, actually powerful, actually active, just ask them directly.

[Kaelik]

Once again PL:

Have good jobs? Yes.
Have influence to get other members good jobs? Yes.
Use power to do anything that non members don't also do? No.

The conspiracy theory is that they run the country, and enact their shadowy agenda, not that large numbers of powerful people happen to be friends with other powerful people. That's expected.

[PhoneLobster]

The conspiracy theory is that they run the country, and enact their shadowy agenda, not that large numbers of powerful people happen to be friends with other powerful people. That's expected.

Stop being an idiot Kaelik.

People, like say, Kobajagrande, just merely mention the NAME "Free Mason" as a crazy conspiracy theory. The very existence of the free masons as a crazy little cult is considered a wacky conspiracy theory.

If I sit here and say "in the 1960s Free Masons severely limited the ability of openly Catholic individuals to get skilled higher status jobs in Australia" there are people who will seriously say "Wut! That sounds like a wacky theory!".

And really a alliance of unrelated individuals who are secretive about their association and use it to, secretly, further the personal ambitions of other cult members and the (secretive) ambitions of the cult as a whole IS NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL. Even Christian dominionists are more open about that sort of thing.

Nor does giving government jobs to cult members and black balling their rival Catholic cultists count as "not effecting non members".

So I don't know, shut the fuck up?

(Kaelik is clearly just a Free Mason agent)

[erik]

I think what Kaelik is talking about is that in the u.s. people seriously associate the free masons with being some illuminati that is in control of the government at the highest levels.

That is the kooky crazy conspiracy that he is referring to. There are seriously an alarming amount of folks who buy into it.

[PhoneLobster]

I think what Kaelik is talking about is that in the u.s. people seriously associate the free masons with being some illuminati

There are ties between the crazier Masonic conspiracy theories and Illuminati conspiracy theories, as there are basically every time you have a secretive gentleman's cult that dabbles in power.

Though in the case of the Free Masons they pretty much themselves go out of their way to encourage the crazy Illuminati angle. See. It fits in really nicely with their mythology, symbology and over all style. They rather like outsiders thinking of them as "kinda like illuminati" hell I'm pretty sure they like to think of THEMSELVES as "kinda like illuminati".

It doesn't actually MAKE them illuminati, but it goes a long way to explaining why many people think they are the same thing.

that is in control of the government at the highest levels.

Well that's just silly.

Everyone knows that's the Skull and Bones society.

Duh.

[Kaelik]

People, like say, Kobajagrande, just merely mention the NAME "Free Mason" as a crazy conspiracy theory. The very existence of the free masons as a crazy little cult is considered a wacky conspiracy theory.

Stop being an idiot PL. Kobajagrande also just merely mentioned the Illuminati. But the Illuminati Conspiracy isn't whether the exist, it's that they secretly rule the world.

As is the Free Masons. If you said "The Catholics severely limited the ability of openly Protestant individuals to get skilled higher status jobs in Italy, every single day since forever." That would be equally true, and yet some people might call that a "wacky theory."

Likewise Anglicans v Catholics in Canada.

Just because some people think something that did happen is a crazy theory doesn't mean most people who talk about that organization think that it's unlikely.

(Kaelik is clearly just a Free Mason agent)

See, this right here is what I'm talking about.

I've said:

1) The Free Masons exist.
2) The Free Masons have some stupid rituals.
3) The Free Masons hang out and do old people stuff in lodges.
4) Make sure they get jobs. (Which necessitates "instead of non members")
5) May have hated Catholics in the past. Now they have Catholic members, so...

And yet you call me an agent.

Assumably because I and trying to hide some aspect of them.

So what aspect am I trying to hide? Because when you say that people who point out all that shit are really agents, it implies you think I'm trying to hide the secret plan to take over the world.

BUT THERE IS NO SECRET PLAN TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

[Maj]

The conspiracy theory is not that they are an organization that arranges a vast network of connections so people can get good jobs.

Damn. That sounds like my local Chamber of Commerce.

[Lago PARANOIA]

So what aspect am I trying to hide? Because when you say that people who point out all that shit are really agents, it implies you think I'm trying to hide the secret plan to take over the world.

BUT THERE IS NO SECRET PLAN TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

Sounds like something an agent of the Freemasons would say.

Kaelik, why are you such a Catholic-hating jerkface?

[PhoneLobster]

But the Illuminati Conspiracy isn't whether the exist,

If you said "The Catholics severely limited the ability of openly Protestant individuals to get skilled higher status jobs in Italy, every single day since forever." That would be equally true

No. It wouldn't.

You could say that about some periods in history. Like when Catholics were running England and slaughtering protestants (and visa versa depending on the flavor of the month) but you basically cannot say that about modern western society post enlightenment at all. I mean you can't even safely say that about IRELAND. And thats basically the one place in the modern (western) world where you could come close to that.

Edit: Oh actually come to think of it there IS a Cathollic group that does that... the cult like semi-secret society of Opus Dai, they make the more modern Freemasons look like uncommitted amateurs. But importantly, they aren't the same thing as "the Catholics" and they ARE in fact another "crazy conspiracy theory" that plenty of "reasonable people" dismiss as some sort of fictional joke.

Likewise Anglicans v Catholics in Canada.

Are you fucking crazy?

Anglicans. Modern Anglicans? Those Anglicans?

The only Anglicans who do that... are Free Masons.

And yet you call me an agent.

You forget the bit where you are acting as an apologist for massive conspiratorial nepotism and secretive religiously motivated black balling.

That makes you their best spokesperson and supporter as far as this thread goes so far.

BUT THERE IS NO SECRET PLAN TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

Oh well I guess we can pretend they don't exist and let people make jokes about how they don't exist or let YOU say "oh its no big deal, business as usual, nothing to see here, move right along".

Its the same with the Zionist movement thing.

Just because they aren't a secret world shadow government of ancient anti-white satanists doesn't mean they AREN'T a bunch of entirely real really powerful bad guys who do really bad things.

And using the "well they aren't Lex Luthor" argument changes none of the reality of the situation.

You are effectively trying on a strawman argument here and that is EXACTLY what this thread is about.

Some of those "wacky conspiracies" have some very real aspects that are ignored because of the wacky associations. You are trying to do exactly that right here.

It is shameful.

[PhoneLobster]

Damn. That sounds like my local Chamber of Commerce.

Local Free Mason leadership, Local Chamber of Commerce, virtually the same thing in areas like mine.

Even now, and the Free Masons really aren't what they used to be.

[Josh_Kablack]

So, the Unversity owns it now, but two blocks from my office sits a former masonic temple:

Photo

And here're

Directions to their current one

[Kaelik]

No. It wouldn't.

Yes it would.

Are you fucking crazy?

Anglicans. Modern Anglicans? Those Anglicans?

The only Anglicans who do that... are Free Masons.

No, not modern, I never said that. Anglicans. In the past. In Canada. You had to go back to the 60s in Australia. I can use Canada at the turn of the century. Free Mason's don't do it any more, since they accept Catholic members.

You forget the bit where you are acting as an apologist for massive conspiratorial nepotism and secretive religiously motivated black balling.

That makes you their best spokesperson and supporter as far as this thread goes so far.

WTF? Apologist? Apologist how? I correctly pointed out that they conspiratorially give jobs (not nepotism, since that's family). I have not defended anything they have ever done, including hate Catholics. I have in fact repeatedly claimed that they do not rule the world. You have repeatedly declared me to be defending them by stating that, IE, implied that they rule the world.

It is precisely because fucktards like you attack anyone who says that the Free Masons don't rule the world that people who know nothing about the organization walk away from conversations like this thinking that Free Masons rule the world, which is in fact the real conspiracy theory.

Oh well I guess we can pretend they don't exist and let people make jokes about how they don't exist or let YOU say "oh its no big deal, business as usual, nothing to see here, move right along".

No! Bad PL! Stop lying! No one on this board has at any point claimed that the Free Masons don't exist. Not one single person. Fuck you. Stop lying.

Some of those "wacky conspiracies" have some very real aspects that are ignored because of the wacky associations. You are trying to do exactly that right here.

No! Bad PL! Stop lying! No one on this board has at any point claimed that the Free Masons don't exist. Not one single person. Fuck you. Stop lying.

Stop Lying!

[PhoneLobster]

Fuck off my thread Kaelik you are too stupid to breath.

[Kaelik]

Fuck off my thread Kaelik you are too stupid to breath.

Fuck off an die PL. If you can't stand getting called on your lies, leave the Gaming Den.

[PhoneLobster]

You won't stand by your own arguments and eat your own words when I call you out on them. I won't be having that. I asked you to leave my thread and you respond like that.

You are reported, and on ignore.

[Kaelik]

You won't stand by your own arguments and eat your own words when I call you out on them. I won't be having that. I asked you to leave my thread and you respond like that.

You are reported, and on ignore.

What arguments and what words? You haven't called me on anything, you've repeatedly stated that I am "defending" and "apologizing" for The Free Masons, when I have done nothing even close to that, and you know it.

Yes, when I called you out on lying about what Kobajagrande said, and you decided that correct response to cover your ass was to claim this thread as your private property, and pull a shadzar, I called you on that too. Deal with it.

You don't get to kick people out for proving you wrong.

[Kobajagrande]

People, like say, Kobajagrande, just merely mention the NAME "Free Mason" as a crazy conspiracy theory.

Oh, give me a break. I was obviously making fun of tzor by listing all the keywords of conspiracy theorists that I could come up with. You quite obviously have no idea what I do know or do not know, so please try flaunting your penis in the other direction.

You know what else is real on that list? Trilateral comission. And you know what else? Area 51. And you know what else? Illuminati.

Their existance in the real world has absolutely nothing in common with their images in conspiracy theories.

So, fuck, if you try to take what I say out of context, and dare try using that to make your point in front of me, at least try and get better informed.

[PhoneLobster]

So, fuck, if you try to take what I say out of context, and dare try using that to make your point in front of me, at least try and get better informed.

You made fun of Tzor by asking him to talk to you about Free Masons, at all out of context my ass.

And the only reason you are offended is because Kaelik came here and shitted all over this thread by pulling a "that wasn't what I was arguing I was disagreeing with you by stating your position, fuck you!"

I won't be having with that.

Now behave and accept the fact that you thought the very mention of Free Masonry, however real, was somehow a joke. Or, well, lie and whine for several hundred words while backtracking all over your own position like Kaelik, I don't care.

edit: Oh and also.

Illuminati?

Totally not real. Not anymore anyway. Not for a loooong time. Illuminati ARE a joke.

[Kobajagrande]

Now behave and accept the fact that you thought the very mention of Free Masonry, however real, was somehow a joke. Or, well, lie and whine for several hundred words while backtracking all over your own position like Kaelik, I don't care.

???

How the fuck do you presume to know what I thought???

And you want me to admit something which is not true just so you could feel better about waving your little intellectual penis around? Fuck off.

And Illuminati were a real society. That makes them quite real in my book, as opposed to made-up.