[Tome] Wish Factories

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[Tome] Wish Factories

Post by Hicks »

Wish Factories in Tome: A Primer for 11th Level Wizards
"Ugh, another day of getting everything I want."

So your wizard just became 11th level, and for your 2 spells you picked planer binding and something else unimportant because you picked planer binding. There are a few things you need, in addition to the planer binding spell, and a few things you're gonna want in order to get your factory up and running at peak efficiency:
  • An Intelligence score of at least 15 at first level.
  • Your 4th and 8th level ability points put into Intelligence.
  • A minor magical item to provide an enhancement bonus to Intelligence; at 11th level the bonus is +4.
  • A minor magical item to provide a competence bonus to Knowledge (The Planes); at 11th level the bonus is +11.
  • A minor magical item to provide a competence bonus to Diplomacy; at 11th level the bonus is +11.
  • 5 skill ranks in Bluff, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Sense Motive, for Synergy bonuses.
  • Access to the spells magic circle against evil, dimensional anchor, and of course planer binding.
The Six Step Program
"Hi, my name is Agraham, and I am addicted to POWER!"

So there is a six step process that your wish factory needs to follow to function. Various steps can be done by hirelings and followers, but some steps can only be done by you. It would be wise do do all this indoors in a non-drafty and windowless clean room, just to make sure nothing interferes with the calling process. The six steps are as follows:

Step 1: Cast magic circle, using the focused inward option with diagram (DC 20 Spellcraft). Technically you could do this yourself in 10 minutes, as you have 14 ranks in Spellcraft and a minimum Intelligence modifier of +5 means you auto-succeed on a d20 roll of 1, but anybody with 1 rank in spell craft can just take 20 and do it in 3 hours and 20 minutes. Although the diagram will last for the caster's caster level in days, the minimum duration of 5 days from the lowest possible level caster is more than long enough.

Step 2: In the very next round cast dimensional anchor on the diagram. This will stop the Efreet from using plane shift to go home and ignore you. As above, this effect lasts for the caster's caster level in days, but the minimum duration of 7 days from the lowest possible caster is more than long enough.

Step 3: In the very next round cast planer binding for an Efreet. The Tome of Fiends says that you have to succeed a Knowledge (The Planes) check to summon an Efreet for the first time, and it works out in the worst case scenario to be DC 30 (10 + 10 (Hit Dice) + 10 (never seen one before)). This would be a problem if you didn't have a modifier of (+14 (Skill) + 5 (Intelligence score) + 11 (competence item)) +30, and therefore auto-succeed.

The next part is a little tricky. Planer binding allows a Wiillpower save to negate its effect. If you have been following the guide your spell save DC is 21; Efreeti have a +9 Willpower save, so you have a 55% chance of bagging a genie. If you fail to get an Efreet, start over again at Step 2 when you get access to another planer binding; If you succeed in getting an Efreet continue to Step 4.

Step 4: Interact with the bound Efreet for 10 minutes to increase its disposition to Friendly (DC 15 Diplomacy) or Helpful (DC 20 Diplomacy); with 5 ranks in bluff, knowledge (nobility and royalty), and sense motive you can get a cool +6 synergy bonus to your diplomacy check, and you can get/make a minor magic item that adds a competence bonus equal to your level (+11), so +17 Diplomacy modifier > DC 15 means auto-Friendly, or a 85% chance of Helpful if you are Scrooge McDuck. Or you don't want to screw around with Diplomacy bonus stacking you can skip this and bribe the Efreet with 23,200gp to automatically skip to Step 6.

Step 5: Bribe the Efreet with 5,800gp (if friendly), or 2,900gp (if Helpful).

Step 6: Make a wish. There is some ambiguity concerning whether you get three wishes or one wish. The ability is "1/day grant 3 wishes (to nongenies only)", so talk to your MC to see if this is one standard action or 3 individual standard actions; I personally believe it's three wishes as a standard action (as the ability does not say "3/day-wish"), but this guide is made assuming the MC only allows one. Either way your wish(es) must be one of these:
  • 25,000gp in mundane wealth.
  • One magic item of 15,000 gp or less.
  • +1 Inherent Bonus (Max of +5) to an ability score.
  • The effect of any Wizard spell of 8th level or less with no XP component
  • Transport for 12 willing creatures anywhere in the multiverse.
Dungeons and Streamlining
"I wish I could wish for more wishes."

To the astute observer, it takes 20 minutes and 18 seconds to from "0" to "wish granted", and it takes one 3ed, 4th, and 6th level spell slot as well as somewhere in between 58 and 464 pounds of gold, and basically has a 55% chance of success. The first thing you are going to want to do is do it as much as you can.

Spell Slots: The real deal bottleneck is 6th level spell slots, as that is how many times per day you get that 55% chance to get your wish on. The easiest way to increase your number of 6th level spell slots is to be a Conjurer and gain a bonus spell slot at every spell level for conjuration spells.

The next way is to maximize your Intelligence score. In the above example the minimum Intelligence score of 15 was used, but having a higher intelligence leads to more 6th level spells, so 18 (base) venerable (+3) Grey Elves (+2) start first level with a 23 Intelligence, and can add their level ability increases (+2), magic item (+4), and an inherent bonus (+5) for a 34 Intelligence, or an additional two 6th level spell slots. But an increased Intelligence also means an increased spell save DC; that same Grey Elf has a Willpower DC of 28 for planer binding, which means a 95% capture rate. For the thorough, consider acquiring the Lich or some other Intelligence increasing template.

In an extreme example, the 11th level venerable grey elf lich conjurer has an Intelligence score 36, and can cast planer binding 4 times a day for a total work day of 1 hour, 21 minutes, and 12 seconds.

Spellstitched: This template is found on page 161 of Complete Arcane, and can be applied to any corporeal undead by any wizard or sorcerer with the Craft Wondrous Item feat, 1000gp, and 500*the Wisdom score of the undead creature in experience points. What you care about is that if you can get an intelligent undead creature's Wisdom score up to 19, they can cast a 6th level spell from the conjuration, evocation, or necromancy school as a Spell Like Ability with a caster level equal to their hit dice. Incidentally, if your character is undead and has a base wisdom of at least 10 you can stack an Inherent bonus (+5) plus a magic item of Wisdom (+4) to get that additional 6th level slot.

If you are a straight wizard or somehow held onto your familiar progression, you should pick up the Stitched Flesh Familiar feat and, with a little boost from Inherent and magical item Wisdom bonuses, Spellstitch it to cast planer binding yet another time per day.

Souls: So you have an unhealthy number of intelligent undead all set to be Spellstitched, but the real problem is where are you going to find 9,500xp to burn for every minion spell stitched, and the answer is probably going to be souls. You could always collect the souls of your fallen enemies and channel them to create magical bling with the Soul Collector feat from the Book of Fiends. It takes a lot of souls to get 9,500xp for item crafting; to illustrate, here's a helpful table:
  • Soul CRWorth in GPWorth in XP
    110020
    240080
    3900180
    41,600320
    52,500500
    63,600720
    73,900780
    86,4001,280
    98,1001,620
    1010,0002,000
    1112,1002,420
    1214,4002,880
    1316,9003,380
    1419,6003,920
    1522,5004,500
    1625,6005,120
    1728,9005,780
    1832,4006,480
    1936,1007,220
    2040,0008,000

I know what you're thinking, and you shouldn't do it; calling Efreeti into a prepared death room loaded with traps seems like it's a good idea as you are set up to do just that, until you remember that the multiverse is literally an infinite series of infinities holding an infinite number of Efreeti that will murder you in the face faster than you can possible call them into prepared death rooms. Best not to bite the hand that grants your wishes.

Leadership: So you have the souls, and the ability to Spellstitch intelligent corporeal undead minions, all you need now are minions. What you are going to want to use are Venerable 1 and 3 hit die wizards who became Ghouls or some other Tome +0 LA undead template as part of a Leadership feat you picked up.

So the only problem is that it takes 19 days to Spellstitch each minion, 19 days that you could spend getting wishes granted. So the sensible thing is to have your 3+ hit die undead wizards with the Craft Wondrous Item feat Spellstitch the lesser hit die underlings with the Spell Like Abilities provided from another Spellstitched minion using the souls from your defeated enemies. As a bonus, wish for them a passel of 1/day items of magic circle against evil and dimensional anchor so you can automate the entire process of getting everything you want.

The tricky part is making sure that the minion you've invested so heavily in can actually call an Efreeti; if they blow their knowledge (the planes) check they were a 19 day waste of time. So you will want them to view an actual Efreet (sets the initial knowledge check to a DC 20), while compile a written work detailing everything about Efreeti and have them read it (-10 DC), and to study an Efreeti whose service was to stand in a completely safe room and not kill anyone for at least a week before you got your wishes from it (-10 DC), thereby assuring that they can make a knowledge check of DC 0.

What follows is a helpful table of the most useful followers for your [Leadership] feat of choice:
  • CRMinions
    1/2Whatever
    1Whatever
    1 1/2Spellstitched Venerable Grey Elf Adept 1 Swordwraith/Ghoul
    2Spellstitched Venerable Grey Elf Adept 2 Swordwraith/Ghoul
    2 1/2Spellstitched Venerable Grey Elf Adept 3 Swordwraith/Ghoul
    3Spellstitched Venerable Grey Elf Wizard 2 Swordwraith/Ghoul
    4+Spell Stitched Venerable Grey Elf Cleric 3+ Swordwraith/Ghoul with Craft Wondrous Item

Implications and Dragons
"So for reals, this will rape the game, right?"

This section is unwritten, but will be finished later.
Last edited by Hicks on Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:20 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Post by Kaelik »

1) You don't have to go back to step 1 from step 3, you can just repeat step 3. You still have a circle with Dimensional Anchor cast on it the next round too.

2) We all know how to do it you idiot. Fuck even Prak, the actual dumbest person who has ever played D&D, knows how to fucking use Planar Binding to get wishes. This is fucking useless.

3) The important part is why you think a Wizard specifically tailored for Wishing who outputs a net of 2 Wishes a day after paying for all his bribes is actually a worthwhile use of anyone's time, or adds up to having enough scrolls to keep Haste and Heroism up on the party all day every day.
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

Kaelik wrote:2) We all know how to do it you idiot. Fuck even Prak, the actual dumbest person who has ever played D&D, knows how to fucking use Planar Binding to get wishes. This is fucking useless.
Nitpick: shadzar.

In other news, isn't this in one of the tomes? What is the need here?
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Post by Vebyast »

Kaelik wrote:2) We all know how to do it you idiot. Fuck even Prak, the actual dumbest person who has ever played D&D, knows how to fucking use Planar Binding to get wishes. This is fucking useless.
It's not for any of us - remember, there are other people out there, some of whom have never heard of the Tomes or the wish economy. Some of them even show up at our forum with zero posts and get confused, which makes this immediately and directly useful.
Last edited by Vebyast on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chamomile »

I'm not sure if that's the intent, but some kind of sticky with all these concepts would be helpful. Although in this case, couldn't we just link to a Tome thread and be done with it?
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Post by Prak »

Kaelik wrote:2) We all know how to do it you idiot. Fuck even Prak, the actual dumbest person who has ever played D&D, knows how to fucking use Planar Binding to get wishes. This is fucking useless.
Why am I supposedly the dumbest person to ever play D&D?
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Post by Hicks »

Thanks for finding that error Kaelik, it has been corrected.

Added a section on the Spellstitched template, soul harvesting, and leadership automation. It kind of puts the wish factory into NIMBY territory, and, just like real life NIMBYs, you cant do much when it stets up shop in your neighborhood. I guess the key then is to take a page from the Tome mind flayers and be good neighbors and to hunt somewhere else far away.
Last edited by Hicks on Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Chamomile »

Prak_Anima wrote:
Why am I supposedly the dumbest person to ever play D&D?
Because I'm a monkey!

I wouldn't count on a more logical explanation than that.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Prak_Anima wrote:
Kaelik wrote:2) We all know how to do it you idiot. Fuck even Prak, the actual dumbest person who has ever played D&D, knows how to fucking use Planar Binding to get wishes. This is fucking useless.
Why am I supposedly the dumbest person to ever play D&D?
Because you're not Kaelik, and in Kaelik's houserules, that makes you tied with everyone else for dumbest.
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Post by Kaelik »

Vebyast wrote:
Kaelik wrote:2) We all know how to do it you idiot. Fuck even Prak, the actual dumbest person who has ever played D&D, knows how to fucking use Planar Binding to get wishes. This is fucking useless.
It's not for any of us - remember, there are other people out there, some of whom have never heard of the Tomes or the wish economy. Some of them even show up at our forum with zero posts and get confused, which makes this immediately and directly useful.
It's actually is supposed to somehow demonstrate to everyone who disagrees with him in the flight is a level 1 ability and no one should fly after level 2 thread why wish replaces all possible forms of flight, including tactical flight.

I have no idea why, but he's very sure about this, and this thread is supposed to help us understand.
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Post by Previn »

Kaelik wrote:3) The important part is why you think a Wizard specifically tailored for Wishing who outputs a net of 2 Wishes a day after paying for all his bribes is actually a worthwhile use of anyone's time, or adds up to having enough scrolls to keep Haste and Heroism up on the party all day every day.
Huh... this got me thinking about the mythological sources that lead to the setup for this and generally in myths the critter bound and granting the wishes would do it's best to twist them.

Looking over the Planar Binding, there's nothing that's preventing the bound Efreet from screwing you over, even if it agrees to the service.
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Post by fectin »

Previn wrote: generally in myths the critter bound and granting the wishes would do it's best to twist them.
That is false.
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Post by Prak »

You're supposed to negotiate the "don't screw me over part."

But yeah, it makes chain binding dumb, because there's no reason for the efreet to replicate magic circle like you told it, rather than just replicating unseen servant or something to draw a proper circle with no magic so that the next efreet summoned just attacks you.
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Post by virgil »

The vast majority of wish stories/myths I've read have the person behave impulsively or not realize the implications of what they ask for (King Midas), rather than any malice on the part of the wish-granter. Loopholes, word twisting, and deception as you see in Gygaxian wishes I've only really seen in modern stories where the character makes a contract with the Devil (or obvious analogue); in which case, its the wish granter that approaches with a preset 'wish' as an offer to further their own ends.
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Post by Hicks »

The whole point of Tome calling magic is to get the called creature to either like you so much that he do you a favor, scare him so much that he wouldn't cross you when he is alone and vunurable, or bluff them into thinking that what you have to offer is way more valuqble than not givimg you wishes.

This thread was in the pipeline before the "flight was a low level ability thread", but required a lot more research and was delayed. The impetous to post a thread on wish factories was made when Kaelik said I had no idea what I was talking about in the flight thread and furthermore would tell me how utterly wrong I was by like step 4.
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Post by RadiantPhoenix »

I recall the story of the monkey's paw, but that's more or less it for gygaxian wish granting stories...
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Post by virgil »

RadiantPhoenix wrote:I recall the story of the monkey's paw, but that's more or less it for gygaxian wish granting stories...
I forgot about that one. It came with all sorts of warnings to people who got it though. If an actual paw appeared in a game, no player would dare touch the thing, because they're generally not impulsive & oblivious like the characters in such stories.
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Post by Chamomile »

virgil wrote:
RadiantPhoenix wrote:I recall the story of the monkey's paw, but that's more or less it for gygaxian wish granting stories...
I forgot about that one. It came with all sorts of warnings to people who got it though. If an actual paw appeared in a game, no player would dare touch the thing, because they're generally not impulsive & oblivious like the characters in such stories.
And keep in mind every wish made in the Monkey's Paw story was extremely simple and easy to twist. I was looking forward to a legal game of cat-and-mouse when I looked it up, but no. Just "I wish for two hundred pounds," "I wish my son was alive again," and presumably "I wish he wasn't." The paw probably could've done something with "I wish my son was back exactly the way he was when he left the house the day we made the first wish," but at least you could've credited the old couple with trying, since the father was very explicitly panicking over his son being brought back as a zombie.
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Post by Hicks »

Upon further research, having am Efreet successfully save against planer binding of course does not ruin the magic circle diagram, but you still need to cast dimensional anchor in the round before you cast planer binding, so go back to Step 2.
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Post by Previn »

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Post by virgil »

Chamomile wrote:And keep in mind every wish made in the Monkey's Paw story was extremely simple and easy to twist. I was looking forward to a legal game of cat-and-mouse when I looked it up, but no. Just "I wish for two hundred pounds," "I wish my son was alive again," and presumably "I wish he wasn't." The paw probably could've done something with "I wish my son was back exactly the way he was when he left the house the day we made the first wish," but at least you could've credited the old couple with trying, since the father was very explicitly panicking over his son being brought back as a zombie.
Also keep in mind that much of the horror in the Monkey's Paw assumes the wishers have souls, which is not a guarantee for your players.
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Post by hyzmarca »

RadiantPhoenix wrote:I recall the story of the monkey's paw, but that's more or less it for gygaxian wish granting stories...
There are a few. Ojibwa mythology has a trickster spirit turn a guy into a rock because he asked for immortality and another guy into a fox because he asked to be a good hunter.

Greek mythology has that time somebody asked Zeus for immortality but not eternal youth and ended up suffering a fate worse than death as a result. And that time Hermaphroditos 's girlfriend asked to be with him forever.

Then there's Jephthah in the bible, he was a bit too open-ended when trying to bribe God and ended up having to set his own daughter on fire. But that was more a punishment for trying to bribe God than anything else.




Arabian genies don't tend to twist their wishes, but they'll just kill you outright or make you suffer fates worse than death if you annoy them.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by darkmaster »

Okay, yes, those are tropes, but they're modern tropes. You referenced mythological sources.
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Post by Previn »

darkmaster wrote:Okay, yes, those are tropes, but they're modern tropes. You referenced mythological sources.
You do realize that they list literary and mythology examples in there?

I really don't think the Bible, Greek mythos, Aesop's Fables, Native American mythology, let alone Arabian examples of actual Genies/Efreet doing it are exactly modern things....
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Post by Kaelik »

Hicks wrote:The impetous to post a thread on wish factories was made when Kaelik said I had no idea what I was talking about in the flight thread and furthermore would tell me how utterly wrong I was by like step 4.
Right, because you kept saying chain binding, because you didn't know what that term means, so since chain binding is impossible in Tome with Planar Binding, you would be wrong if you advocated chain binding for anything, which you did, but was wrong for a different reason.
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