Reading the Constitution

[PhoneLobster]

I dare you to poll secessionist sentiment in the USA.

Well, poll it again that is. Maybe it vanished in the last five minutes since 18% of Texans wanted to secede from the United States.

They even have a political movement. It's called the Tea Party, Tzor is party of it, they LOVE secessionist, and better yet armed revolt, wank chat.

[cthulhu]

I don't think I can find French Muslims

I see. You are just pulling flat out CRAZY MAN! talk again aren't you.

It's no true Scottish Muslim hey.

Literally no less.

Here is a hint Tzor, the fact you can't find them there French Muslims and fall hook line and sinker for every neo nazi con job out of the UK and Europe might be connected to the fact that you appear to be incredibly gullible, myopically short sighted when it comes to culture and you aren't actually in France.

I have every reason to believe if you lived in France right now you would be telling us about all those scary USA Muslims who don't accept their nation about to take over the USA and how they are totally different to the French Muslims you actually occasionally see and therefore don't MASSIVELY DEMONIZE IN AN IGNORANT RACIST MANNER.

Seriously man, Racist much? "Muslims in my own country/region are OK, but Foreign Muslims I don't know anything about MUST be EVIL INCARNATE!".

edit: Again as usual Tzor's proof through his "inability to find something" turns out to be UTTERLY hilarious when a very brief glance picked up this on wikipedia no less...

Several studies reveal that France seems to be, among the Western countries, the one where Muslims integrate the best and feel the most for their country. French Muslims also have the most positive opinions about their fellow citizens of different faiths. The study from the Pew Research Center on Integration is a good example of works revealing this typically French phenomenon.

The funniest thing is that when you go check the study, UK and France have a more positive view of Muslims than the US. If you check Germany though it's all fucked up. <Insert joke about racial purity>

[Kaelik]

You appeal to fox news about how influential people are talking about it, but fox news doesn`t talk about it. Nor do republican politicians. That`s the difference between being vocal and having someone talk about it in an email.

You know, I understand the whole burden of proof thing, but seriously, why don't you even try? When I'm interested in something that someone's talking about, rather than spout off some unbacked tripe, I go look it up. I even deliberately look up views in opposition to my own because I'm less interested in being right and more interested in understanding.

To that end:

http://patriotpost.us/commentary/2010/1 ... in-the-us/
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/100725
http://www.texasinsider.org/?p=42440
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.co ... ia-law.php
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010 ... -in-us.php
http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/t ... nts-sharia

When I searched for [sharia law in the US] on Google, almost every link was a right-wing link. And those that weren't conservative were mocking conservatives for their fears that sharia could even take hold.

Republicans are the biggest and strongest force the US has in making sure sharia courts won't happen. They may be dicks; they may be Islamophobic, but it is precisely those qualities that will keep sharia out.

Maj, why are you doing this? Why does your mom being insane have to be proof of the vocality of Republicans in a matter they basically never talk about?

Yes, most people who talk about Sharia courts in the united states, where there are no Sharia courts, are American Conservatives, because American Conservatives are stupid, and American Liberals are not, so American Liberals talk about Sharia courts where there actually are Sharia courts.

No, Republicans are not what prevents Sharia Courts in the US, what prevents that is the constitution, and the way the 14th amendment has been interpreted. Particularly, the things that 4 out of 4 liberal supreme court justices and only 3-4 out of 5 conservative justices think it good policy.

Now if you search for Sharia Courts in Britian, you come up with some stuff, some of which is certainly conservative, but also, from the Times, and the Guardian, decrying the courts. HEY, those are liberal newspapers!

Now, to address your main misunderstanding more thoroughly:

1) There is a difference between something some conservatives have said, and something about which American Conservatives are vocal.

2) There are 551,000 results for Sharia Courts in US. There are 6,270,000 results on lower taxes. That is about 12 times as much. See the difference between vocal vs has been talked about?

3) Likewise, I'm sure if you type "9/11 was an inside job!" into google, you will come up with mostly liberal links. But that does not mean that liberals are vocal about it. It means that those people who do talk about it are most often liberals. In the mean time, Liberals are not vocal about it, because it's fucking stupid. Likewise, your mom's chain letter about Muslim takeovers is no more representative of what Republican congress people attempt to make laws about than Loose Change is of what Liberal congress people try to make laws about.

If fox news was running reports on Sharia courts all the time, that would be evidence in your favor, but they do not, instead the run reports about building Mosques, or Obama the secret Muslim, or tax hikes, because those are things that American Conservatives are actually vocal about.

[The Vigilante]

From what I understand the big difference between Canadian multiculturalism and most everyone else's is whom we allow to immigrate. To come to Canada you need to have marketable skills, the side effect of that is that our immigrates are probably on average better educated, and since they have skills they it's a bit more likely they will find employment, even if it's not in their given field. I think nearly every other country relies on immigrants to do menial labour, since that isn't very lucrative they don't have any real class mobility so they end up marginalized, which breeds resentment.

We have a very permissive refugee program. In the last lebanese conflict, our government brought back thousands of Lebanese "Canadian" citizens, who promptly got back to their country once the dust had settled. I guess maybe you haven't heard about it as much since most of them choose Quebec as their "host" province since we speak French as they do, but they have become experts in gaming the immigration system. There are a bunch of arab lawyers that specialize in creating fake lives for these people, they fake leases, medical insurance, school enrollment for their children so it looks like they have a life in Quebec, while in reality they basically never set foot in the country more than once and just use their canadian passport as a safety net.

In the rest of Canada, there is the whole LTTE debacle, where we turn a blind eye to the financing of a foreign terrorist group by a local minority that poses as refugees.

Pretending that the canadian immigration system is safe and sound is a complete joke.

[Username17]

Maj, why are you doing this? Why does your mom being insane have to be proof of the vocality of Republicans in a matter they basically never talk about?

What the fuck? Did you sleep through the last three years? Fuck, were you asleep for the last ten? We don't make fun of conservatives for ranting about the president being a secret Muslim for no reason, we make fun of them for that because they actually do it. Like, all the time.

Let's consider some of the major Republican Think Tanks. Center For Security Policy, Heritage Foundation, Valus Voters Summit, and so on. We have rants about the Red Menace from the American Enterprise Institute, CPAC, and of course: FOX News.

Ranting about how the Muslims are going to overthrow our laws and turn us into a new Taliban regime is one of the standard conservative talking points. And it has been for a solid decade. Fuck, Tzor has been on about it in this thread. You ever noticed how Tzor doesn't ever use an argument unless it has been vetted as a conservative talking point already? Shit man, how did you miss this shit? It's been on every single TV station and ranted about on every political blog in the whole world since iPods were new.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

Maj, why are you doing this? Why does your mom being insane have to be proof of the vocality of Republicans in a matter they basically never talk about?

What the fuck? Did you sleep through the last three years? Fuck, were you asleep for the last ten? We don't make fun of conservatives for ranting about the president being a secret Muslim for no reason, we make fun of them for that because they actually do it. Like, all the time.

Let's consider some of the major Republican Think Tanks. Center For Security Policy, Heritage Foundation, Valus Voters Summit, and so on. We have rants about the Red Menace from the American Enterprise Institute, CPAC, and of course: FOX News.

Ranting about how the Muslims are going to overthrow our laws and turn us into a new Taliban regime is one of the standard conservative talking points. And it has been for a solid decade. Fuck, Tzor has been on about it in this thread. You ever noticed how Tzor doesn't ever use an argument unless it has been vetted as a conservative talking point already? Shit man, how did you miss this shit? It's been on every single TV station and ranted about on every political blog in the whole world since iPods were new.

-Username17

Well you could read my own post where I separate claims that the President is a secret Muslim from opposition to Sharia courts in Britain, because one of those is a waste of everyone's time, and the other is opposing a terrible stupid policy. I mean, I know Britain is weird, but the Archbishop of Cantebury is a supporter of the courts, because Conservatives are all for local religious authorities having the option to settle decisions. Hence why it's two Conservative Supreme Court justices who reject the interpretation of the due process clause applying to the states.

[Maj]

Maj, why are you doing this? Why does your mom being insane have to be proof of the vocality of Republicans in a matter they basically never talk about?

For starters... NOT MY MOM, OK?!!!

And next... WTF? The topic of my relatives by marriage isn't in the post you quoted at all. There are links to various blogs and articles from or about groups/people/current & former political figures/other loud mouths protesting sharia in the United States. Isn't that what you were just saying didn't exist?

Republicans are not what prevents Sharia Courts in the US, what prevents that is the constitution, and the way the 14th amendment has been interpreted. Particularly, the things that 4 out of 4 liberal supreme court justices and only 3-4 out of 5 conservative justices think it good policy.

Dude, we already have rabbinical courts in the US. I honestly don't see why sharia courts are that much more of a stretch.

See the difference between vocal vs has been talked about?

No, I don't. But whatev. You win by redefinition.

[Kaelik]

No, I don't. But whatev. You win by redefinition.

I can't win by redefinition when it's the original definition.

So just to be clear, do you think American Liberals are vocal about 9/11 being orchestrated by the Bush administration? If not, how does people talking about 9/11 being done by Bush in any way differ from your examples of people talking about evil Muslims?

[Username17]

Dude, there are right now members of congress fear mongering about the shariah menace. Right now. Kaelik, you're living with your head in the sand.

I understand if listening to people babble on FOX News is painful and you don't want to do it, but once you make that choice you make yourself look like a moron if you insist that conservatives aren't being vocal about something or other that you haven't been paying attention to.

Here's the actual issue: in every sane country, people are allowed to settle civil disputes by agreeing to binding arbitration from some respected third party. Some non-zero number of people want to go to religious leaders for this purpose. This is stupid, but it is also their right to do that, because the arbiter could be anyone at all.

Here's part two of the issue: conservative Christians fear monger about Muslims in pretty much the same way that they used to about Communists. So the fact that people submit voluntarily to binding arbitration by a mullah in the UK, France, and even the US is repeatedly and deliberately conflated with the inhumane executions that are performed in Iran and Somalia. This has become a standard talking point and is used to rally people all over the Republican rant machine. From dedicated trolls like Tzor to radio mouth pieces like Limbaugh on up to members of congress like Bachmann.

Here's part three of the issue: apparently you've been asleep for about ten fucking years, because that is the only way you possibly could have avoided noticing this shit.

-Username17

[Maxus]

Damn right.

There's a 'conspiracy crowd' in the breakroom when I first get to work each, and one of them told me that Mubarak leaving Egypt was a bad thing because now "The Muslim Brotherhood will take over".

Or, to put it another way. If American conservatives were cool with Islam/don't have a problem with it, why are so many of them 'accusing' President Obama of being a Muslim?

[cthulhu]

Damn right.

There's a 'conspiracy crowd' in the breakroom when I first get to work each, and one of them told me that Mubarak leaving Egypt was a bad thing because now "The Muslim Brotherhood will take over".

To be fair, this is a non zero possibility, unlike, say, Obama being a Muslim who was born in Kenya.

[RobbyPants]

Or, to put it another way. If American conservatives were cool with Islam/don't have a problem with it, why are so many of them 'accusing' President Obama of being a Muslim?

Because almost any policy/opinion they have does not hold up at all under scrutiny.

[PhoneLobster]

To be fair, this is a non zero possibility...

Except that those lunch room conspiracy theorists may well not be talking about Egypt when they panick about the Muslim Brotherhood Taking Over!.

No really there is a long standing branch of established conservative conspiracy theory that believes that the Muslim Brotherhood, Marxists and Unionists are conspiring to basically conquer the world.

No no, REALLY.

[Neeeek]

1) There is a difference between something some conservatives have said, and something about which American Conservatives are vocal.

They passed a law in Oklahoma that was essentially the exact thing Maj was talking about. So, they aren't vocal, they are just actually working on it.