The state of Miniature Wargaming

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

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TheFlatline
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Post by TheFlatline »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Why is no one going to run games where people run 90+ figurine armies in the future? Is it too expensive/too hard to run/too hard to get all the pieces/too time consuming to paint? Do the games that enjoy that kind of thing threaten to dissolve? If it's that, then why wouldn't some other company revive that model? I thought that the model was to try to soak players for as many figurines as they could expect their audience to afford--which obviously means encouraging players to field armies as big as they can get.

Of course there's the issue that one big WG company could convince you to drop money on 100 figurines more easily than one small company, but that's assuming that some young turk won't grow the pie higher and eat the market.
You tend to play games you have opponents for. In a wargame-heavy local market, you're far more likely to invest in a smaller wargame that interests you.

Games Workshop is the 800 pound gorilla partially I suspect because there isn't a widespread player base in a lot of areas. You take what you can get.

The game shop owner in San Jose says they have a healthy minis wargame group, which means that it's easier to branch out.

I'd also suggest that maybe the days of 100+ figs on the battlefield are over because of time, cost, and effort to pain them. Painting 50 figs is a large investment of time and money. Playing that large of an army is pretty time consuming too.
Gx1080
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Post by Gx1080 »

While all of the above (too expensive/too time consuming) is a factor, wargames have been able to tolerate the above so far (people painted 150 gaunts for their Tyranids, WTF?). The big factor is time.

Simply put, with bigger armies, you HAVE to simplify/extrapolate the rules so that games don't last 4-5 hours. Because the people who have the actual money to buy armies of that size (working adults) can't afford expending that much time on a FLGS since they have family, friends and stuff to do. Specially for a single round against one oponent, instead of several.

The GW solution so far has been making a lot of the models simple wound counters. And investing time+effort+money on a wound counter is a massive turnoff. See: The last two Fantasy codexes, which tanked because, among other reasons, were the most blatant examples.

Compare the above with the level of detail and the ilusion of strategy (being actual strategy depends on the writer) that a squad-based game offers and you see why is so tempting.

Of curse that companies want people to buy tons of minis. But the above + you know, a worldwide recession really hurts that.
Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

This is rather orthogonal to the discussion, but what about 3D printing? I don't want to bump the thread, but once 3D printing gets in the realm where you can have an army of colored minis of whatever flavor you want within a week and on the cheap then it'll cause the market to explode. That is if it's still around in 15 years for the technology to catch up--which I think it will be.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Gx1080
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Post by Gx1080 »

Well, yeah. All wargames companies know that.

But the technology is still too undeveloped, it will requiere serious detail improvement+cost reduction to become widespread. Ask again on 10-15 years.
cthulhu
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Post by cthulhu »

Pretty sure that blood bowl and necromunda are the best GW games going.. still.
Koumei
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Post by Koumei »

cthulhu wrote:Pretty sure that blood bowl and necromunda are the best GW games going.. still.
No, they're actually worse than the big two one.

Anyway, the WD "codex" is bad enough that I needn't eat my hat. Heck, the hoax codex scans (all of 4 pages) were better than this. So once again I get to feel smug about having quit the game so long ago. The awful changes don't actually affect me.

Also, it shows some glaring "we didn't think this through" problems. Such as "you roll the same 1d6 Faith points per turn, whether it's a 200 point kill teams game, a 500 point lunch break, the 750 point SA standard, the 1,500 point classic, the 2,000 points US/UK standard or a fucking huge game." That is a really amateur mistake.

Hilariously, in Apocalypse it's broken, because you declare each unit to be its own army, with its own Faith pool.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Gx1080
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Post by Gx1080 »

The sales of decade-old metal models (small as they were) were a worthwhile sacrifice for being able to still pretend that Ard's Boys is acutally a decent, competitive event.

Dunno why they bothered. I mean, everybody with a clue goes to the NOVA Open and NOVA-style events. And everybody without a clue clubs baby seals on their local Rogue Trader Tournaments.

Ah well. They will learn the hard way.

Besides, proxy/grey wars (hello 2500 pts) are not fun.
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