[D&D 3.5] SRD Cleric Archer Advice

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:03 pm

One of the MCs in my group proposed a one-shot, and I'm thinking of trying out a Cleric Archer for once, but I'm not quite sure how I want to build it yet. I want the PC to be effective and fun to play, but there's a new player and I don't want to go with anything too ridiculous.

Here's the PC creation rules
- Level 6
- Can only use content from http://www.d20srd.org/
- 32 Point Buy
- No Leadership or similar feats
- Normal wealth per level
- no dedicated minion-leading PCs. If you play a rebuking cleric, that's fine, but don't bog down the game playing Skeleton King
- Allowed to make your own gods

I like the idea of some kind of missionary trying to drum up support for a deity on the Air Elemental plane. And I could probably talk Mister Cavern into letting me start with a pair of Arrowhawks if I take the Air domain.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:36 pm

Sigh... be an Elf, to gain proficiency with bows. First level feat is Insightful Strike (1) (in the SRD under divine feats) to use WIS bonus instead of DEX for ranged attacks. Next feats are Point Blank Shot (3), Rapid Shot (6), Many Shot (9), and Quicken Spell (12), in that order.

Cast spells like greater magic weapon, divine favor, divine power, bless, prayer, righteous might and whatnot to whore stacking bonuses and murder people in the face with a longbow.

Don't forget to stack defensive bonuses with magic vestment, hero's feast, magic circle against evil and whatnot to survive.

Don't forget that you are a also full spell caster and can just cast spells like Wall of Stone and Plane Shift to just /win the whole encounters.

Saxony · Post by **Saxony** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:18 am

I think there are a few domains giving archery feats, also.

Elf Domain is not core...

Also, Hicks, I question your suggestion for Manyshot. I thought it was terrible. What's up with that?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:30 am

Elf Domain isn't core. Frank often recommends the War Domain, but I'm not a big fan of it if you already have the base proficiency. The spells are by and large turkeys. It is mandatory for non-elven Cleric Archers however. Humans are really, really stoked over it.

Personally, with that list you can't go wrong with some combination of Mysticism, Trickery, Travel, and Charm. They're really good. If you're not picking up Insightful Strike then Madness is a rockingly hard good (you're right before the breakpoint where it becomes unquestionably overpowered) domain. But it's not an auto-pick for Cleric Archers who want to use Insightful Strike/Zen Archery.

If there isn't going to be a wizard in your party then Travel and Charm are very good pickups. If you're worried about SoDs then Mysticism + Charm are good.

As far as your feat selection goes, you'll barely have enough for the Point Blank Shot + Rapid Shot + Craft Wondrous Item combo, which you should use to load yourself up with goodies after you have a combat or two to pad your experience total.

Keep in mind though that <level 9 cleric archers that are not abusing Divine Metamagic are just as much casters and blasters. The arrowing is a backup to spamming your best spells and a damage boost for intelligent tactical situations like waiting for an enemy party to pass and blasting them in the back at 150' away. If you're mostly fighting in close quarters and/or on a short workday you should probably just go with straight Blaster cleric. Madness + Charm is a very, very powerful combination of domains.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:43 am

Not insightful strike, take Zen Archery. ignore this, these feats aren't in your allowed material. Go with what Lago said:

1. Point blank shot
3. Rapid shot or craft wondrous item
6. Craft wondrous item or rapid shot (seriously)
9+. Whatever, probably something cool like quicken spell; but really, whatever.

The really.cool thing about a cleric.archer is that you are basically gear independent, get a composite longbow, full plate, buckles, and more arrows than is reasonable.

Really cool shenanigans involve (1) casting greater glyph of warding with some save or die in it on an arrow and shoot it at some fool as part of a rapid shot full attack. (2) Arrows break when they strike anything; (3) set the glyph to trigger on the arrow breaking; (4) laugh maniacally.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:36 am

Update: Mister Cavern has okayed +1 Returning Spell Storing Arrows, but amended the starting Character wealth to 10,000 GP. I have made a pledge "not to do anything ridiculous" with the arrows. Additional damage and "curses" are okay.

Arrowhawk minions have not been discussed yet.

Since I can build a god to fit my character, I am likely playing a human. I might be able to get some kind of exotic ranged weapon as a target for the War domain, but I think it would be better for the game if the deity just favored regular longbows.

EDIT:
-------------------
Budget: 10,000 GP
10 +1 Returning Spell Storing Arrows (10*360) = 3,600 GP
+1 Full Plate 2,650 GP
Masterwork Longbow 375 GP
2 Wands of Cure Light Wounds (CL 1) (2*750) = 1,500 GP

8125 GP spent

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:04 am

Spend that 3k on a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend instead of +1 armor, and use it on Magic Vestment. The other two charges can go to whatever else you want to last for a full day.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:07 am

Remember to put composite longbows as your deity's favored weapon, they add STR bonus to damage while regular longbows don't. Glyph of warding is cheaper than setting fire to 80gp every time you attack someone, and will do both more damage and allow more customization.

[url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm wrote:d20 SRD[/url]]Magic Ammunition and Breakage
When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, shuriken, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or otherwise is rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, bullet, or shuriken that hits is destroyed.

Hey, lose the magic and masterwork qualities on your stuff, you have magic weapon and shield of faith, later magic vestment, for that. Get that buckler ASAP. You will need a +DEX item as it is the only attribute you cannot boost with your spells (unless you can pull some Planer Ally shenanigans).

The Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend is good advice, and start saving for your Braces of Archery (Lesser, then Greater)

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:14 am

Longbow proficiency lets you use composite, doesn't it? Or did someone slip that one by me when I wasn't looking?

Edit: grammar correction

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:26 am

Well, I was wrong.

[url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite wrote:d20 SRD[/url]][*]Longbow, Composite
You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost.

For purposes of weapon proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:33 am

Thanks for all the advice, I'm definitely taking it into account (especially the gear I don't need with 3rd level buffs), but I think I might need to talk to Mister Cavern again before I make any hard decisions. I might want to make a case for 1 feat beyond the core material and get his take on how Returning arrows interact with ammo breakage.

I had forgotten Zen Archery wasn't core. If I can't grab Zen Archery, I need Dexterity. This shifts ability dependency quite a bit.

I can afford the following, not counting the +1 at level 4:
10
10
12
12
16
16
==========
10
10
10
11
16
17

I'll make another post when I get some more info. Probably have a Mythweavers link for the character sheet then.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:02 am

You absolutely must have a minimum of 13 DEX (Rapid Shot) and 15 WIS (9th level spells), everything else is gravy.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:10 am

Alright, update. I called up the MC, explained that the magic arrows I wanted were actually against the rules, mentioned that I was going with long-term buffs on my PC (meaning vulnerability to dispels), and asked for permission to use Zen Archery. He said yes.

Ability Scores: (level 4 bonus not applied)
STR 14
DEX 13
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 17
CHA 10

Gear:
Lesser Bracers of Archery (5000 GP)
Lesser Metamagic Rod (Extend) (3000 GP)
Full Plate (1500 GP)
Composite Longbow (+2 Strength bonus) (300 GP)
100 Arrows (100 GP)
Buckler (15 GP)
“Adventurer Gear” (50 GP)
45 GP

Spells Active:
Extended Magic Vestment x2
[At level 7] Greater Magic Weapon x1

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:34 am

You also want Flame Arrow and as many Energy Substitution (not core, but open and on site you linked) varieties of it as you can stack - but I have no idea how to pull that off without Leadership or browbeating an actual player into carrying extra buffs for you on their wizard.

Also, full attacking with Rapid Shot is always hitting for more damage than Standard Action attacking with Manyshot, and usually alternating double-move with full attack turns comes out ahead of single move + manyshot for both distance and damage. While there are those times you want to be able to fire multiple arrows with a standard action, there are a lot more times you want the +1 to hit that Weapon Focus with your bow gets you instead. And personally, I think you can find better things to do with your precious feats.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:03 am

Don't forget that you need to account for +4 STR of bulls strength with your composite longbow.

Upon further thought, the braces of archery (5k, +1 ranged attack) is not as good as a +2 DEX item (4k, +1 ranged attack, AC, initiative, and skills). Use the 1k saved to buy a better bow and have 800 left over, which you should spend on another wand of cure light wounds or a pile of scrolls.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:15 am

If I used a composite longbow with a STR minimum higher than my default, I'd take penalties using it when my strength buff ran out.
----------------

Here's the partially finished character. Got distracted midway through by Skyrim, and I'll probably finish early tomorrow.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.p ... tid=345260

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:22 am

Yeah... replace the braces of archery with +2 gloves of DEX and a wand of CLW.

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:49 pm

Josh_Kablack wrote:And personally, I think you can find better things to do with your precious feats.

Improved Initiative is always a safe bet, especially if you plan on using crowd control or buff spells in round 1.

Datawolf · Post by **Datawolf** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Avoraciopoctules wrote:If I used a composite longbow with a STR minimum higher than my default, I'd take penalties using it when my strength buff ran out.
----------------

Here's the partially finished character. Got distracted midway through by Skyrim, and I'll probably finish early tomorrow.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.p ... tid=345260

Maybe you could just cast it again? Keep an extra casting prepped in case it runs out or gets dispelled.

Also... why does your cleric have six-sided hit dice? Are you using the Cloistered Cleric variant (it's not listed on your character sheet)?

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:20 pm

Datawolf wrote:Also... why does your cleric have six-sided hit dice? Are you using the Cloistered Cleric variant (it's not listed on your character sheet)?

Because it's been months since I played regular D&D and I only half-remember the rules. There's lots of fiddly details that change between houserule sets.

===================

Bracers of Archery converted to:

Wand of CLW
Periapt of Wisdom +2
250 GP worth of black onyx and diamond dust

I start the game with 6 skeletons and can afford 1 Glyph of Warding to get a bonus on an arrow attack. Probably going to make it carry a Bestow Curse

==================

Character sheet is now functionally complete, I think
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.p ... tid=345260

EDIT: I should note that since Zen Archery got specifically allowed, I went with a WIS item instead of DEX. Also grabbed Spell Focus (Enchantment). Hold Person should have good enough DC to work reliably without making the rest of the party look bad.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:45 pm

Dur, I give advice on internets! Good call on the periapt of wisdom.

Glyph of warding and bestow curse are third level spells, and you can cast third level spells; so remember that you can have an arbitrary large number of glyph arrows with a modicum of downtime.

Hold person, blindness (not deafness), and silence also go great in your glyph arrows. And remember that blast glyphs hit everybody in a 5 foot radius around a Target for 3d8 reflex half elemental damage.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:36 pm

Hicks wrote:Glyph of warding and bestow curse are third level spells, and you can cast third level spells; so remember that you can have an arbitrary large number of glyph arrows with a modicum of downtime.

Hold person, blindness (not deafness), and silence also go great in your glyph arrows. And remember that blast glyphs hit everybody in a 5 foot radius around a Target for 3d8 reflex half elemental damage.

Definitely nice ideas. If I didn't have to worry about the following quote, I'd probably put glyphs on every arrow.

Material Component
You trace the glyph with incense, which must first be sprinkled with powdered diamond worth at least 200 gp.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:57 am

Once you get higher level though money becomes less of an issue. Since this is a short-term game it prolly won't happen sadly.