Grit Die and Grittiness

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:41 am

So... with yet another song inspiring* me, I'm consider reviving Dead Man's Hand. I really would kind of like to just make a new D20 setting, if for no other reason than "the hard long, tedious work is done." But, of course, the Hit Die/Hit Point system is somewhat at odds with gunslingers style.

So... what if we actually take the half assed excuse that "oh, Hit Points represent one's ability to shrug off minor wounds and turn heavy hits into near misses and stuff" and make it what it intends to be, a mechanical representation of Plot Armour. For a western-esque setting, I'd just call it grit, and let players pick minor bennies at character creation, among which are a set that say "You are so [x] it makes you harder to kill. Use your [y] instead of Con to determine Grittiness." Then instead of a swordsman who takes a spear that should have pierced his heart who somehow made it pierce his shoulder, you have tough, hard ass gunslingers who take get shot in the face, but are so hard core that they keep on fighting, while minor bank robber npcs die from a shot in the foot because they're yellow bellied cowards who aren't important to the plot like the PCs and major NPC enemies are. I'd cobble in something from those Wounds/Vitality systems that I usually hate, and say that certain attacks, like Finger of Death, or crits, deal damage in Grit Die rather than Grittiness. And then you say that some things are accomplished by pure Grit alone, and make it something you'll occasionally add to a d20 roll.

before people say this idea is dumb and I should feel bad for having it, it's literally an idea I had in the 30 seconds it took to piss. So take that as you will.

*Ghostriders in the Sky, this time.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:43 am

I do love cowboys and mangrit.

would the cowboys be in a strictly old western setting? You mentioned finger of death. Is this old west kitchen sink?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:32 am

Dead Man's Hand was my name for a setting idea I got roughly five years ago that combined spellcasters and gunslingers. I'm revising it in a new thread right now, actually, but the old thread has a lot of discussion and work (mostly by Frank...) and was an Old West Kitchen Sink. The idea at the time was to just drop wizards into the old west and replace guns with rods that fire off spell rounds. Now I'm working on more of a "Dungeons and Dragons, but replace Medieval Europe with the Wild West" with paladins roaming the range, having shootouts with demons and showdowns with Hanging Judge Necromancers.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:56 am

It is unclear to me how this "idea" is in any way different from every single HP/Damage/Whatever system ever.

You can take a certain amount of whatever damage your system deals derived from whatever stats your system has and you have more of that on powerful PCs than whatever weak NPCs your system represents.

And?

Where is the bit where this is a thread subject?

It's not that I'm saying "this idea is dumb" I'm saying "...where the hell is this so called 'Idea'?"

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:32 am

the idea is the part where HD becomes an actual depletable resource. Though I suppose what that actually means is "a lot more things deal negative levels, like possibly crits and called shots."

Otherwise it's a "would this explanation fly, do you think?"

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:37 am

The explanation would fly and is a good idea. The specific mechanic of shooting off hit dice is dumb, but if you wanted you could salvage it into something else. Let's call HP "Plot Armor" and then we have Grit, and if either of those two hits 0 it kills you dead. You get +1 Grit each level. Don't call it a die, that's confusing, just call it Grit and if you want say that you lose one roll of your hit die whenever you lose a Grit, but really it was already a crit and is probably already doing extra damage to your Plot Armor.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:02 pm

Cham, your suggestion was basically "do what you just said, but complicate it and take flavour out."

I could see taking the die part out of Grit Die, but I still think it should lay on top of an existing stat, rather than be added on as a separate one. Either way could work though. With Grit Die, crits and called shots deal 1d6 negative levels, except you don't take penalties to anything except your Grit rolls. With just Grit, crits and called shots are damaging you luck mod. Actually calling HP Plot Armour is out of theme for some games, in theme for others.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:09 pm

Plot Armor was an example name because it's uselessly confusing to have one stat be used for luck rolls and call it Grit and the other stat used for health and call it Grittiness when those two purposes have nothing to do with each other whatsoever except in that you get more of them both every time you level.

What you're describing is a system where you have a stat called Grit that increases by one every level and which can be reduced to 0 to kill you, and you are then calling it a "Grit Die" and attaching it to your health stat for no reason whatsoever except to be confusing.

Stubbazubba · Post by **Stubbazubba** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:03 pm

So it's just a variant Vitality/Wounds system, where Wounds increase with level? That effectively makes low levels very lethal and high levels very silly. Since this is a d20 system, I guess that's a perfect fit. As a theme, it works, the names attached to it work, and I do think VP/WP system is better than straight HP. I don't know exactly what DMH is supposed to be like to say if the fact that you can take multiple shotgun shots to the face at point blank range at high levels is fitting or warping the setting.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Well, there's a thought... what if when you damage Grit you deal your grit, or a number based on it? I'd have to play with the idea a bit more, but it would mean that, say, in a shootout, you actually don't roll damage, unless you miss for a called shot but roll high enough for a normal shot. Ok... let's say that two level 1 characters are having a showdown, they draw, and shoot, rolling called shots for the head (d20+dex+BAB-4 against AC). If they hit, they simply do 1 Grit, and drop their opponent. If their roll is no more than 4 less than the enemy AC, then they still hit, but it's a normal hit for Grittiness (HP) damage.

Alternatively, when you attack Grit you could roll a single die, size based on level (1-3: 1d4, 4-6: 1d6, 7-9: 1d8, 10-12: 2d6, 13-15: 2d8, 16-18: 4d6, 19+: 4d8, or something), or your base weapon die plus Grit (eg, pistol 1d6+level). I wouldn't want 0 Grit to automatically mean death, though. Perhaps a "below 0 means death" or "-5 Grit means death, -4 to -1 means dying, 0 means dropped" or something.