Coronavirus thread

[Username17]

I've been saying since the start of this that coronavirus is the revolution we won't throw for ourselves. It remains to be seen if it succeeds because America doesn't seem like it's gonna help much.

The situation doesn't seem extremely amenable to a traditional insurgency or uprising. The masses demand... normal order, the executive to do its fucking job, rule of law, disaster aid to be paid out in a timely manner, a coherent plan for addressing public health issues, and managed supply chains. And yet, a typical revolution would be expected to upend all of those things.

It's one thing to do an uprising against oppression. It's quite another thing to do an uprising against incompetence. You can't burn down the post office to stop Donald Trump from defunding the post office. Or rather, you can, it just doesn't do any good.

Contrast with the gun toting morons in the anti-lockdown protests. Their position is literally less popular than belief in vampires. They have no popular support and can't overthrow anything. But they can point guns and shout at people because their goal is simply to collapse the country into anarchy. They don't care about the roads being maintained or the post office working because they are fucking idiots who think that their place in ownership class will insulate them from societal collapse somehow.

Now we have the major problem that our institutions have completely failed. The Republicans have chosen to simply refuse to remove the criminally unfit president because they simply don't want to do it. Jared is still stealing PPE from states and selling them on the black market. Our country has a remedy for this situation, but there are also veto points and the Republicans occupy enough of them that if their entire party simply chooses to support depravity and criminality over the rule of law the wheels of justice cannot and do not turn.

I genuinely don't know what the answer is. By far the fastest and cleanest way to solve this problem is to elect a Democratic majority in the senate and send Trump to jail. But that's a really long time in quarantine days - the election isn't until November and the new Senate doesn't take over until January. But Mao's successful uprising took nine years. There's no obvious path to a quicker resolution than 9 months to even put people who give a shit in charge of the country.

Nine months isn't nine years. But it's still too long. And it may well be that the regional consortiums need to step up and bypassing the incompetent federal government much sooner than that. I don't like that, because I'm not sure that that kind of decentralization is a genie you can put back in the bottle. It may be the least-bad option for the moment.

But this is what the mad emperor has been tweeting:

Does anybody get the meaning of what a so-called Noble (not Nobel) Prize is, especially as it pertains to Reporters and Journalists? Noble is defined as, “having or showing fine personal qualities or high moral principles and ideals.” Does sarcasm ever work?

Just... what the actual fuck? That's the Donald trying to pretend that he didn't misspell "Nobel Prize" or that he wasn't completely confused as to which people got Nobels and which people got Pulitzers. And of course, the original wouldn't have made any sense as "sarcasm" with the prizes misnamed either. And perhaps most importantly of all, ranting about reporters being bad for having reported on his crimes would be stupid and dangerous even if he done it "correctly." Obviously the United States was never intended to have a mad emperor or a completely corrupt political party that kept the mad emperor in power despite obviously insanity, criminality, and incompetence. It's going to be a bad time no matter what.

-Username17

[Thaluikhain]

I'd also point out that the US is a nuclear capable nation, and you really don't want a civil war in one of those.

[OgreBattle]

Civil wars seem to only happen in countries with low access to pornography

[Username17]

Civil wars seem to only happen in countries with low access to pornography

Except for the Ukraine civil war in Donetsk.

Chamomile's rant is very good. Especially this part:

Indeed, a revolutionary movement with the ability to take a city from the paramilitary units enforcing the government now should seriously consider the wisdom of actually doing so.

-Username17

[Maj]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. Americans are remarkably complacent when it comes to dealing with bad treatment. Paying $2.13 for a tipped wage. Lack of basic health care. Undermining unions and forcing people into the gig economy. That doesn't touch repealing EPA protections. Or the erosion of voting rights. Or... Or... Or...

We aren't outraged enough. COVID-19 is showing us all our weak spots. It's clearly shouting that we value profits over people. It's the revolution (proverbially speaking, not literally) that we won't actually throw for ourselves.

[RobbyPants]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. Americans are remarkably complacent when it comes to dealing with bad treatment. Paying $2.13 for a tipped wage. Lack of basic health care. Undermining unions and forcing people into the gig economy. That doesn't touch repealing EPA protections. Or the erosion of voting rights. Or... Or... Or...

We aren't outraged enough. COVID-19 is showing us all our weak spots. It's clearly shouting that we value profits over people. It's the revolution (proverbially speaking, not literally) that we won't actually throw for ourselves.

It doesn't help that half the country has bought into beliefs about capitalism and poor people that prevent them from being outraged by these things.

The best you get is them noticing the problems, blaming it on something vague like "crony capitalism", assuming No True Capitalist would do such a bad thing, and then continuing to vote against the best interests of the majority.

I don't think this is a case of just simple complacent. People have accepted that the worst way to do things is the best so their tribe can keep on winning.

[MGuy]

Systems have a tendency to work to preserve itself. So capitalists and the system they rule over are very interested in preserving the hierarchy that puts them in charge. People born under the system. but who don't benefit are taught that there is no better way and to protest only within the confines that the system allows.

I don't think it's that people are remarkably complacent. There are just tons of barriers to making substantive change. At. no point during my time in public school was I taught about alternatives to Capitalism. Most of the media you're going to see reinforce capitalism as 'the norm' in one way or another. Typically you're only ever going to get to vote for capitalism or capitalism with a big helping of hating brown people. There is no viable third option.

So what are you going to do about it? Protest? Well people do that and largely nothing happens. Remember that Standing Rock protest over the Dakota pipeline where people protesting for extremely sane reasons were met with what looked like military force? What support did they get for being basically attacked by jack booted thugs for the rights of a wealthy oil entity to shit over their livelihoods? Remember how Flint still doesn't have clean water despite nationwide attention?

What's the point of being being fed up and angry when the reaction you get is people on the right telling you to shut up and do some boot strap lifting while people in the center center tell you to shut up and be happy with whatever scraps you get? We need a big movement of people who are willing to sacrifice themselves to enact change and who can can be confident that enough other people will make that sacrifice with them. I'm happy to see that there's a lot more talk about worker strikes and purple getting angry but I don't think we've seen enough suffering that people aren't already used to, to see an actual insurrection in this country.

[Kaelik]

https://newrepublic.com/article/157486/ ... c-politics

Democrats like Schumer believe that attempting to make political hay out of doing something that benefits a lot of people is a form of cheating. It’s a violation of the unwritten rules of the game to do beneficial and popular things, and then attach your name to those things. But politicians only come to see this as “playing dirty” if they spend a lot of time explaining why they can’t do things their base actually wants.

[Kaelik]

Week 7 of an ongoing pandemic and the three most powerful democrats in the country, Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi, still don't support monthly cash payments, the only thing that can possibly sustain people fast enough and counter the GOP's "back to work" narrative.

[RadiantPhoenix]

“What I’m going to do is call you guys and see what suggestions you have for Phase 4 because we should start writing it right now,” Ms. Pelosi could be overheard telling Representative Richard E. Neal, Democrat of Massachusetts and the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Representative Nydia M. Velázquez, Democrat of New York and the chairwoman of the House Small Business Committee, and Representative Maxine Waters, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Financial Services Committee. Ms. Pelosi listed a number of items, including “direct payments” and “more hospital funds.”

Pelosi has said the House and Senate should consider refundable tax credits, expanded unemployment insurance and direct payments. But the California Democrat has been firm that any of the proposals “MUST be targeted,” her spokesman Drew Hammill wrote on Twitter this week.

Is there some other usage of the phrase "direct payments" besides item 1 in this? [PDF]

1. At Least $2,000/month for all adults and $1000 for each child. The Federal Reserve would be directed through a money-financed fiscal program, to fund automatic stabilizers in the form of at least $2,000 for every adult and an additional $1000 for every child for each month of the crisis. Adults would be eligible to withdraw these funds from financial institutions or receive them directly in the mail via the IRS. This funding tool would enable the Federal Reserve to more directly stimulate the economy and provide families with the ability to purchase necessities like food and medicines. This provision would also prevent payments from going to millionaires and billionaires.

[Kaelik]

I'm glad the bad faith troll has returned.

Here's a hint, the the FSC proposal from MARCH 18TH hasn't been passed by Pelosi or even brought to a vote because she opposes it and saying she is "considering" a list of things including direct payments, but demanding that whatever passes must be "targeted" is pointless, because while "direct payments" is not a technical term of art, it is obvious from the context of my post that I don't mean "targeted" direct payments at god WHATEVER you would want to target that at, but instead you know, universal direct payments.

But hey, I'm sure that your tedious "fact checking" where you pretend that Pelosi supports things she specifically won't call to vote because she made a vague comment that still doesn't mean she is for it will be really useful when you start applying it to the guy running around calling random people Russian Assets out his ass.

Haha, just kidding, we both know your bad faith fact check trolling where you keep being wrong over and over will never be turned on the people you live to serve.

[Username17]

Is there some other usage of the phrase "direct payments" besides item 1

There are other direct payment schemes being proposed, if that's what you mean. Pelosi has implicitly and explicitly put Maxine Waters' UBI scheme on the table for negotiation. But remember that Republicans hold two of three veto points in bill passage and both McConnell and Trump are nihilists who don't mind when poor people die.

It's rather unlikely that the Waters proposal will make it through to be signed by Trump without being significantly watered down at some stage. Which isn't to say that the Democrats aren't supporting it - they definitely are. Just, realistically they do not have the presidency or the senate at the moment.

-Username17

[Dogbert]

It doesn't help that half the country has bought into beliefs about capitalism and poor people that prevent them from being outraged by these things.

The devil's greatest trick was convincing the poor they deserve to suffer for being poor.

[OgreBattle]

it seems like a lot of the techniques used by slave owners to keep slaves pacified are the cornerstone of politics in the US today

[Hicks]

A bigass strike is happinging come lunchtime

[Leress]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... s-n1196886

[OgreBattle]

Have any of those armed militia groups taken to brandishing arms around places forced to stay open or are they 100% Republican aligned

[Username17]

Have any of those armed militia groups taken to brandishing arms around places forced to stay open or are they 100% Republican aligned

They are literally 100% Republican aligned.

-Username17

[Maj]

Wearing a mask at the store is now a fucking political statement. Someone actually said to me that it wasn't going to protect me, so I shouldn't bother wearing one. When I responded, "I don't wear it to protect me. I wear it to protect you," they just shut up.

[Neeeek]

Wearing a mask at the store is now a fucking political statement. Someone actually said to me that it wasn't going to protect me, so I shouldn't bother wearing one. When I responded, "I don't wear it to protect me. I wear it to protect you," they just shut up.

Huh. Wearing a mask to the store is a countywide mandate here. Stores are supposed to kick you out if you don't have one on.

[MGuy]

Indiana is a very red state and I haven't heard of anyone making waves about mask wearing specifically. Complaints about the stay home business yes. Masks no. That strikes me as very odd.

[Maj]

I'm calling May 10th as the day when the US surpasses the number of deaths of the rest of the world.

[Username17]

I'm calling May 10th as the day when the US surpasses the number of deaths of the rest of the world.

No way. You're forgetting that the UK is also criminally negligent and the reported deaths are going to exceed Italy within the week. The US death toll is growing faster than the UK's but not by as much as you'd think.

There's the other fact that soonish various countries are going to take stock of their dead and radically upscale their reported COVID deaths. Too many countries like Ecuador simply have dead rotting in the street but less than two thousand reported dead. Every country that comes forward and says "Actually our death toll is eight thousand higher than we thought it was, our bad." puts off the US getting an absolute majority for four more days.

The other thing to remember is that a lot of poorer countries have no ability for people to stay the fuck inside. Many countries are kind of protected by the fact that people don't fly to them that much, but when the virus does break out there, the poverty stops being any kind of protection.

Don't get me wrong, the decisions by Republican governors in Georgia and Iowa to try to force people back to work right when the number of cases is exploding is going to kill people. Lots of people. But a lot of other countries fucked this up and I don't think the US can beat all of them together before the fires in the third world burn too hot to ever surpass.

-Username17

[Leress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqOoC4Duop0

Michigan and Washington extend stay at home order.

[Maj]

I have fallen for Chinese propaganda. The video is cute and hilarious.