Jack_Lurch at [unixtime wrote:1077828669[/unixtime]]So, just to make sure I understand:
Oberoni Fallacy: Even though the DM can fix it in his campaign, the RAW on this subject/topic are broken.
DMINAGF: If the RAW on this subject/topic are broken, you should expect and assume your DM will not let you use them.
Is this correct?
Pretty much. I'd even say an ethical player would help his DM not to be a goldfish by telling him in advance. Since playing with broken mechanics is only fun for about 5 minutes.
Oberoni at [unixtime wrote:1077856924[/unixtime]]But the basis of the idea is a system is not perfect because it allows you to alter it. Claiming otherwise is dumb.
I agree. But so is claiming that Rule 0 doesn't exist, or that you should build a PC in a vacuum where there is no Rule 0 and no campaign rules. RAW is fine for metagame discussion (is X broken?), but isn't worth beans at the real table (can I play X?).
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1077829723[/unixtime]]Which means that the DMISAGF is not a meaningful complaint, honestly.
Huh? Oh, you mean DMI
NAGF.
It depends on the context. For variant rules, it's glaringly obvious you need the DM to be a goldfish to do certain things. Like playing a Gestalt PC in a non-Gestalt game. Or playing a Mystic Theurge with Gestalt, etc.
I've seen games where the Octopus Druid was legal. I've played an Octopus Druid in actual games.
So what's your point? Your DM is a goldfish? Your DM bows to your rules mastery unquestioningly, and doesn't alter the sacred texts of the game? That you can exploit your DM's ignorance and "win"?
That the RAW is broken is no guaranty that a DM will recognize it as such,
So you're arguments are based on the presumption that your DM is an idiot. Great!
if (DM == idiot)
{
game.breaks = TRUE;
}
Duh!
and if you are using the old inane Gygaxian advice - no guaranty that the DM will forbid it. Remember, the old official party line from TSR was that if players broke your game that you should turn up the difficulty - not that you should take away the broken mechanic.
And your point here is what? That TSR and Gygax don't know beans about game theory? No wombat!
Which is why DMISAGF is not the kind of acronym that people actually understand when you say - it doesn't respond to real events in a useful fashion. In reality, no DM is omniscient, nor are they universally benevolent or completely on top of things. Just because something is broken is no guaranty at all that a DM will proactively recognize it and forbid it.
Yep. That doesn't matter. You're still operating under the presumption that the DM is an idiot. IMX, this is not true. And as a player, I bring problems to the attention of my DMs. I don't exploit them to "win".
The only way for a DM to possibly close a loophole is for it to be brought to their attention ahead of time. The only way a DM can hope to have a meaningful fix for Balor Mining is to have the problem brought to their attention well in advance so that they can think through some scenarios and make a patch to the game that does not cause more problems elsewhere.
That's true. I still see people continually suggesting that these things are actually possible in a real game. If someone is smart enough to come up with balor mining, they're smart enough to realize it's stupid broken in addition to being stupid.
The old official way of handling that sort of thing is to watch players get a huge pile of vorpal swords and then kill them anyway with a Protean. And if you don't warn DMs - that's what they're going to have to do.
Because you can only play one campaign. And you never ever get to revise your house rules mid-game.
[Edit: Spelling, of course.]
