[Politics] Abortion Failure Megathread

[Vnonymous]

Calls Confirm Planned Parenthood Misleads on Offering Mammograms http://www.lifenews.com/2011/03/30/call ... ammograms/ via @StevenErtelt

Really, that's fucking clutching at straws. They even threw in the (just about completely discredited) claims about this international network of evil dudes stealing women and forcing them into prostitution.

Call me when pro abortion activists start going out and murdering prominent pro lifers, you know, like the pro life movement has done. Then you'll be able to say "Hey, we're not the evil side here, they're just as bad". You'll still be wrong, but it'll take more than five seconds of work to prove it.

[tzor]

old man, you're going to be on medicare and social security in a few years.

You know, the "old man" jokes are fun (I belong to too many groups where I'm the "young kid") but being only 50, it's more like a decade and a half, and that's if I want to go early, so let's say a little under two decades. Do you know how much shit can happen in two decades? Well I do.

your favored politician wants to drastically cut taxes for the wealthy and large corporations. what are the odds that medicare will remain solvent when that happens? the cold, cruel world of privatized health insurance doesn't look kindly upon the elderly.

A so called revenue proposal cannot, by definition, impact any mandatory spending so your argument is moot. Most of the "elderly" have a fuckton of private insurance; why's there is even an oprganization that sells it to them. You might have heard of them? AARP? Very liberal, from what I've seen.

[tzor]

They even threw in the (just about completely discredited) claims about this international network of evil dudes stealing women and forcing them into prostitution.

ONly if you are drinking that Kool Aid.

Call me when pro abortion activists start going out and murdering prominent pro lifers, you know, like the pro life movement has done. Then you'll be able to say "Hey, we're not the evil side here, they're just as bad". You'll still be wrong, but it'll take more than five seconds of work to prove it.

You know, I wonder what the world would be like if we linked the abolitionist movement to the actions of one extreemist, say ... John Brown?

I, John C. Doyle, was born in Knox County, Tennessee December 19, 1838. My father, Pleasant Doyle, moved to Walker County, Ga., in 1845, moved to Chattanooga1 in 1848, and lived in and around Chattanooga until October 11, 1855, at which time we moved to Kansas; traveled through the country in wagons, via Nashville, Hopkinsville, Ky., St. Louis, Mo., Kansas City, Mo., then fifty miles southwest to Franklin County, Kansas, arriving there November 18, 1856. We settled on a claim of one hundred and sixty acres, built a house, and spent the winter there. In the spring of 1856 we planted a crop. Everything was quiet and peaceful until the night of May 24, when John Brown, with about twenty-five men, came to the house and demanded admittance. When refused admittance, they set fire to the house with torches made of prairie hay. To keep up all from being burned to death my father opened the door. They came in the house and handcuffed my father and my two older brothers and started to take me but my mother begged them to leave me, as I would be all the protection she would have. Brown told mother they were going to take father and the boys to the army, and left the house with them. They took them about three hundred yards from the house and murdered them. My father was shot in the head, my brothers cut to pieces. They left them all dead in a heap. They then went over two miles further to Potawatma River and killed two more men by the names of Wilkerson and Sherman. After they had killed my father and brothers, some of Brown's men came back to our house to get our horses, but failed to find them, as we had them staked out on the prairie to graze, as that was the way we had to feed them.

Clearly the issue is greater than the one nutjob in the community. Or do you think we should return to slavery, given how horrible John Brown was?

Smoke and mirrors are all you have.

[sabs]

You do know that AARP is Medicare SUPPLEMENTAL Insurance? Right.
It's rarely full blown, AND they suggest that people switch to Medicare as soon as they are eligible. Also, you can ONLY get Medigap insurance if you're over 65 and on Medicare part A and B. If you're on Part C, you CANNOT get supplemental insurance.

You pay Premiums for part B, C, AND D.
The Medigap policies range from 67 to 200 a month.
http://www.medicare.gov/find-a-plan/res ... icies.aspx

So, actually most people DO NOT have independent insurance coverage.

[Vnonymous]

You know, I wonder what the world would be like if we linked the abolitionist movement to the actions of one extreemist, say ... John Brown?

I, John C. Doyle, was born in Knox County, Tennessee December 19, 1838. My father, Pleasant Doyle, moved to Walker County, Ga., in 1845, moved to Chattanooga1 in 1848, and lived in and around Chattanooga until October 11, 1855, at which time we moved to Kansas; traveled through the country in wagons, via Nashville, Hopkinsville, Ky., St. Louis, Mo., Kansas City, Mo., then fifty miles southwest to Franklin County, Kansas, arriving there November 18, 1856. We settled on a claim of one hundred and sixty acres, built a house, and spent the winter there. In the spring of 1856 we planted a crop. Everything was quiet and peaceful until the night of May 24, when John Brown, with about twenty-five men, came to the house and demanded admittance. When refused admittance, they set fire to the house with torches made of prairie hay. To keep up all from being burned to death my father opened the door. They came in the house and handcuffed my father and my two older brothers and started to take me but my mother begged them to leave me, as I would be all the protection she would have. Brown told mother they were going to take father and the boys to the army, and left the house with them. They took them about three hundred yards from the house and murdered them. My father was shot in the head, my brothers cut to pieces. They left them all dead in a heap. They then went over two miles further to Potawatma River and killed two more men by the names of Wilkerson and Sherman. After they had killed my father and brothers, some of Brown's men came back to our house to get our horses, but failed to find them, as we had them staked out on the prairie to graze, as that was the way we had to feed them.

Clearly the issue is greater than the one nutjob in the community. Or do you think we should return to slavery, given how horrible John Brown was?

Smoke and mirrors are all you have.

Who said anything about linking it to one extremist? Murdering doctors who provide abortions isn't something done by "one extremist", it is a core policy of the movement(especially the people who suggest that abortion is murder and deserves the death penalty.

Also, I have no idea why you're trying to conflate the pro-death movement with the anti-slavery movement.

[PhoneLobster]

Hey Vnonymous. Tzor has the memory of an apocryphal gold fish when it comes to things he has been embarrassed about in public.

This is not the first time he tried to pull the "We aren't ALL murdering lunatic extremists! Just you know, most of us..." line.

He tried it RIGHT HERE in this thread like 20 something pages ago. He was SO weazily and slimy about it he actually tried to pull a "well no one in MY back yard is like that so therefore the movement is healthy and non murderous!". Because he is so fucking dumb he thought that not only would such a bald faced piece of deceptive slight of hand actually be permitted to fly as an argument IF his backyard WAS filled only with peaceful nice anti-abortionists he ALSO was so stupid he thought that his backyard WAS filled only with peaceful nice anti-abortionists.

The result was basically THIS...

I can't recall any abortion clinic protest that would involve screaming, at least none in my neck of the woods (Long Island).

Hi everyone. It's time to play "the shit stuck to his own face that Tzor didn't notice".

As usual the rules are simple. Take a thing he said he was "not aware" of, type like 3 words into google, and come back in less than five minutes with something that makes his claims UTTERLY LAUGHABLY STUPID.

Today we check to see if Long Island anti-abortion protesters are as polite and pleasant as Tzor seems to remember them being...

The first arson attack against a clinic took place in 1977, four years after Roe v. Wade. It was aimed at a Long Island, N.Y., clinic owned by abortion rights advocate Bill Baird. In the next six years, the pace picked up, with 29 bombings and arsons by 1983.

Yes ladies and gentlemen that's right THE FIRST arson attack against an abortion clinic ever. ON LONG ISLAND, executed of course by those polite long island anti abortion protesters. Though I admit, there is no particular claim of the arsonist screaming per say... I imagine that might have given away the arson attempt after all... (though that doesn't rule it out, they set fire to a medical clinic, these guys could well have been screaming biblical gibberish, speaking in tongues and throwing molotov cocktails.)

But remember the thing to take away from this is, once again Tzor makes himself LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT AND A LIAR.

Edit: [quote="added bonus 1 minute more on google...]signs were found posted at four clinics in Long Island saying, "Danger: This is a War Zone. People are being killed here like in Boston. You risk injury or death if you are caught on or near these premises,"

So Long Island anti abortionists, they may or may not scream at you because of the emotional anguish. They just threaten to kill you and then try and set you on fire. Editedit: Well technically I think the time line goes they try and set you on fire THEN they threaten to kill you. That's worth extra points.

Edit Edit Edit: Then they try and shoot your doctor in one of multiple attempts to kill him...

Bill Baird, a veteran abortion rights activist, was shot at outside his home on Long Island. He was not injured in the attack. This was the second attempt on his life in two years.

[/quote]

... so YEAH in Tzor's insane alternative universe it IS a total minority outside of his agenda's mainstream who are violent murderous fanatical thugs. Because to Tzor those guys are fucking invisible. He cannot even REMEMBER having them pointed out right in front of his nose LAST time he tried to claim they didn't exist like FIVE MINUTES AGO in Internet argument time.

Tzor is seriously the "See no evil" monkey. What violent anti-abortion extremists? He can't see any, he can't remember any, they clearly don't exist, therefore anti-abortionists aren't violent extremists!

[tzor]

You know, it's a good thing I have PhoneLobster on Ignore.

Who said anything about linking it to one extremist? Murdering doctors who provide abortions isn't something done by "one extremist", it is a core policy of the movement(especially the people who suggest that abortion is murder and deserves the death penalty.

Is this the "one, two, many" problem? Is one OK, two, worrysome and three OMG? Then, my God man, what about eight? PhoneLobster would probably have an orgasm of joy, right? Perhaps you would too, never mind that all but one occured within a single decade (the 1990's). So here is the complete list.

MurdersIn the U.S., violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[8][9]

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[10] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at church in Wichita, Kansas.[11]

SO since the pro-life moment really started picking up after Roe v Wade and there was not even any property crime violations until 1984 which was in Pensacola, Florida and no shootings whatsoever until 1993 (once again in Pensacola, Florida) we can clearly see that this is "a core policy of the movement," assuming that we hallucinate hard enough.


Yes eight is still eight too many, but it's hardly an indication of a global attitude of a movement. PhoneLobster's delusional rants aside, this whole issue sounds like the pro-pre-born-killing movement is projecting their subconcious agnst against the pro-life community. They are the one advocating killing people, not the pro-life community. They are the one advocating "death" sentences (against those who are clearly innocent and cannot be proven guilty) not the pro-life community. The pro-life community condemns any attacks of violence against anyone whenever it is necessary to restate the obvious. (The pro-pre-borm-killing community, otherwise known as the Planned Parenthood Ass Kissers, cover up any problem by any one in the abortion industry.)

[sabs]

yes, 8.. but lets grab the REST of that page why don't we.

Murders
In the U.S., violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[8][9]
March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[10] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at church in Wichita, Kansas.[11]
[edit]Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping
According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[12] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[8][13][14]
August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[15]
January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.
[edit]Arson, bombing, and property crime
According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[12] The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993.[16] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[17] Incidents have included:
December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[18][19][20]
May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[21]
October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[22]
May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[23][24][25] This was the second arson at the clinic.[26]
September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[27]
June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[22][28]
July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[22]
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.[29]
September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[30] Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.[31]
April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[32]
December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[33][34]

So lets see
8 Murders
17 Attempted Murders
383 death threats
153 incidents of assaults or battery
3 kidnappings
41 bombings
173 arsons
91 attempted bombings
619 bomb threats
1530 incidents of tresspassing
1264 incidents fo vandalism
100 stink bomb attacks

[tzor]

I thought you were just interested in the murders. FLAG ON THE POST

ILLGEAL MOVING OF GOAL POST - 5 YARD PENALITY - REPLAY OF POST.

So we are saying that out of an active pro-life community in the millions, over all the years, we get this small amount of numbers?

Good thing we are not talking about unions because unions are baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and chevorlet in their wonderful status.

According to the National Institute for Labor Relations Research, there have been over 9,000 documented cases of union violence since 1975, and of these, only 1,963 arrests and 258 convictions have been made; due to the collective political power of unions, only 3 percent of union thugs have been convicted of their crimes.

Of course all so called pro-life assaulters have been prosecued and that's a good thing. The pro-live community condemns them in no certain terms, while the pro-union community praises killers. Let me repeat that, praises killers.

In 1993, 16,000 members of the United Mine Workers went on strike in West Virginia. Non-union subcontractor Eddie York refused to walk out, and was shot in the head by union thugs. Callously endorsing the murder, Richard Trumka (now head of the AFL-CIO, and widely known as Obama’s puppet-master), said "if you strike a match and put your finger in, common sense tells you you're going to burn your finger."

Yes indeed, I think you have found the mote in God's eye.

[Psychic Robot]

100 stink bomb attacks

lol

[RobbyPants]

You know, it's a good thing I have PhoneLobster on Ignore.

I imagine it helps with cognitive dissonance.

[Psychic Robot]

no PL is just an idiot

[tzor]

Planned Parenthood President: My 400K Salary a “Non-Issue” http://bit.ly/prafJu via @StevenErtelt

“It’s public record. It always has been,” Richards responded. “I work hard for my salary, and I think that’s a red herring. Planned Parenthood is the most cost-effective provider of family planning services in this country. The far right has done everything they can to undermine us and to create non-issues, which I think that is.”

The high salary is not surprising given that the abortion business makes more than $1 billion in income. First achieved in its 2006-2007 fiscal year, the abortion business now regularly brings in more than $1 billion. That’s because the abortion business, that year, was doing more abortions than ever before. Its annual report showed an increase in the number of provided abortions from 264,943 in 2005 to 289,650 in 2006.

More recent figures show, in 2009 alone, Planned Parenthood performed 332,278 abortions. Since the average cost of an abortion was $468, Planned Parenthood’s total abortion income that year was $155 million. In light of their total “health center” income of $404,900,000, Planned Parenthood made out like bandits with abortion, which generated 38.4% of this total revenue.

[RobbyPants]

You're against high salaries, Tzor?

[PhoneLobster]

You're against high salaries, Tzor?

Actually, he has pulled this one more than once before too.

If I recall he seems to have done the "See No Evil Monkey" thing again and forgotten that the last three or so times he tried pulling this one it was pointed out that, yeah, you DO in fact pay people who work in these sorts of positions actual money, and no, that is in fact NOT a lot of money for those sorts of positions, they are in fact comparatively low paid.

Hilariously I bet you apples to oranges that Tzor is against the whole 99% crowd and thinks executive salaries and benefits (which are typically much larger) are some sort of natural American freedom or some bullshit... anywhere OTHER than planned parenthood, where everyone should work for free and starve in order to provide women with basic family planning and fertility services, apparently.

Good luck asking him what he actually expects SHOULD be done in this situation. Because as with the WTF he wants to do to abortion criminals in his fantasy world you can sure as hell bet he has no idea what vaguely abortion related executives should be taking home in his fantasy world either.

[tzor]

You're against high salaries, Tzor?

No I think the leader of the largest legal pre-born baby killing prganization deserves as much blood money that she can accumulate from the millions of deaths of the innocent ones. Why would you think I would not?

But it does raise an interesting point. If a CEO of a "non-profit" does qualify for the Obama definition of "millionares and billionares" ($250K by the way if you care) then is it really a "not for profit" or rather "just for the CEO's profit" organization? Just asking. Please note, I would actually make the same argument for any "non-profit" organization.

So, I suppose in some cases, I am against them. Non profits should not be for anyone's profit, and I can't see her justification for that amount of money. Even if they weren't in the pre-born baby business, even if they LIE about how they do mammograms when they don't, I wouldn't donate to any NPO whose CEO is taking so much money that could be used in the organization.

[tzor]

Hilariously I bet you apples to oranges that Tzor is against the whole 99% crowd and thinks executive salaries and benefits (which are typically much larger) are some sort of natural American freedom or some bullshit... anywhere OTHER than planned parenthood, where everyone should work for free and starve in order to provide women with basic family planning and fertility services, apparently.

I'm going to break my normal tradition and actually respond to you. Are there some executives whose salaries and benefits are insanely gross and downright immoral? Damn straight there are. But they are not everyone; hell they are not even the majority. They are the minority.

There is a great new teatament parable about the wheat and the weeds. Wheat and weeds wind up growing together. The first idea is to pull the weeds, but it is pointed out that if you pull the weeds, you will also pull the wheat.

Government cannot pull the weeds without pulling out the wheat. Government cannot punish those few people whose salaries are exceptionally gross without punishing all thsose others CEO's out there who'se salaries are excetionally justified and those who actually take a lower salary because they actually do care for their workers.

Now the so called 99% is not the 99% at all. These are the people who have no jobs, so by definition they pay no taxes. There is 47% of people in the US who don't pay taxes. They are a part of the 47%, not a part of the 99%, because the 53% who are paying taxes don't agree with them.

Because if GOVERNMENT wants to take the money of the 53% (not the 47% because they don't pay no taxes) and give it to the banks, instead of the 47%, the ones who should be complaining is the 53%. And in fact they did! The tea party movement began with the Bush bailouts of the banks.

Do you know, we have a thread about these occupy protestors on our other forum. Yes, they are the BASKET WEAVERS, who are complaining that they should be allowed to take USELESS FEATS and that the DM should go out of his way to keep them from actually FAILING in the game of life. SCREW THEM and leave the real charity for those who deserve it.

Like homeless veterans?

• 1 out of every 4 homeless men (or 33%) in the United States is a veteran.
• There are anywhere from 529,000 to 840,000 veterans who are homeless at some time during the year.
• 47% of homeless veterans are from the Vietnam era, 15% are from the pre-Vietnam era and the remainer are from the post-Vietnam era including such conflicts as Granada, Panama, Lebanon, the Gulf War, the military's anti-drug efforts in South America and the current Iraq War.
• 67% served 3 years or more.
• 89% received honorable discharges.
• 76% experience alcohol, drug, or mental health problems.

[Kaelik]

It's funny because we had this exact fucking argument already, and now Tzor waits a few months, and then has it all over again, conveniently forgetting the part where people gave good reasons why she makes that much money, and why she is very underpaid for her position.

But tell me Tzor, how do you know she is making any profit off her salary? Maybe that's just what she needs to survive and feed her family. I've certainly heard from you before about how it's impossible to raise a family on less than 500,000 a year. Why is she now required to raise a family on no salary at all?

[Username17]

Now the so called 99% is not the 99% at all. These are the people who have no jobs, so by definition they pay no taxes. There is 47% of people in the US who don't pay taxes. They are a part of the 47%, not a part of the 99%, because the 53% who are paying taxes don't agree with them.

You know that people who don't pay income tax still pay taxes, right? They still pay payroll and sales taxes, for example. The number of people who don't pay any taxes at all is pretty damn small, and consists mostly of homesteaders in Wyoming.

More importantly: if only the 47% who don't pay income tax support OWS, how come a majority of people actually support them? I mean, in New York specifically 67% of people support OWS. Yeah, that's a super majority. In the US as a whole, 54% of people have a positive opinion of the movement, and 73% agree with their taxation demands (if not necessarily their methods).

-Username17

[Psychic Robot]

lol at tzor whining about $400,000 BLOOD MONEY when he wants the government to hand out billions to the military-industrial complex to bomb iran

[Neeeek]

Planned Parenthood President: My 400K Salary a “Non-Issue” http://bit.ly/prafJu via @StevenErtelt

Yes, we talked about this before. She's grossly underpaid. Sorry you don't understand that.

[Neeeek]

There is a great new teatament parable about the wheat and the weeds. Wheat and weeds wind up growing together. The first idea is to pull the weeds, but it is pointed out that if you pull the weeds, you will also pull the wheat.

Government cannot pull the weeds without pulling out the wheat.

Of course they can. Thinking it would be hard to do is, frankly, incredibly stupid. Hell, mandate the CEO's salary(and flat disallow golden parachutes and stock options for executives that aren't also offered in the same amounts to everyone in the company) be a maximum multiple of the average employee. It's actually not hard to do. Virtually 0 CEOs in the Fortune 500 are worth their salary (a few take low salaries by choice). You could hire someone at one hundredth their cost and not have a drop in value equal to the difference in their salary.

Because if GOVERNMENT wants to take the money of the 53% (not the 47% because they don't pay no taxes) and give it to the banks, instead of the 47%, the ones who should be complaining is the 53%. And in fact they did! The tea party movement began with the Bush bailouts of the banks.

Umm....No. The Tea Party movement predates the Bush bailouts by years. The recent explosion had absolutely nothing to do with the bank bailouts and was a protest against Obama being elected President, funded heavily by his political enemies.

[PhoneLobster]

Are there some executives whose salaries and benefits are insanely gross and downright immoral? Damn straight there are. But they are not everyone; hell they are not even the majority. They are the minority.

Um.

That's the whole point. Thats what the whole "99%" business is about.

I gotta say. That was one of your most spectacular falling flat on your face in the first paragraph events you've ever managed. And you have managed some doozies.

Government cannot pull the weeds without pulling out the wheat. Government cannot punish those few people whose salaries are exceptionally gross without punishing all thsose others CEO's out there who'se salaries are excetionally justified and those who actually take a lower salary because they actually do care for their workers.

That isn't just speculation it's pure fantasy land lalalalala level bull crap.

Tax the rich. It isn't hard. It is also something provably done in the past. Quite recently. Even fucking Reagan did it. You can totally tax people for having or earning lots of money. It's really, really, really simple.

Your weed parable isn't just insanely circumspect it's outright contradictory of reality. Your weed parable is appropriate for regressive taxation but NOT for the progressive taxation that you just see no evil monkied into never having existed in your weird alternative dimension alternate history fantasy.

because the 53% who are paying taxes don't agree with them.

A lot of your "no jobs" and "53%er" recylced brainless conservative talking points are wrong. But that's the one that was most wrong as clearly explained by others already.

Even if it were somehow reasonable to ignore the concerns of the jobless during a massive unprecedented employment crisis or the concerns of the lowest income earners during a massive unprecedented period of income inequality. Even if it were OK to claim that an income bracket that pays a larger portion of it's income in taxation than any other bracket is somehow "lucking out" by not paying a single specific form of tax. Even if all that were true... actually a lot more than just those guys are fucking pissed with the recent failings and blatant greed or our incompetent and child like aristocrats.

Yes, they are the BASKET WEAVERS, who are complaining that they should be allowed to take USELESS FEATS and... SCREW THEM

That's not how a massive unemployment crisis works.

Even if it was that's not how humanity and compassion works either, but mostly, that's not how a massive unemployment crisis works.

For added bonus points it's also not how income inequality works.

Like homeless veterans?

What? No really. Stay focused, have some attention span here Tzor. LOOK A UFO!

No but really? Homeless veterans are a distraction from an employment crisis and massive social inequality? Do you even know how a "distraction" is supposed to work?

edit: A distraction works by using something different rather than something the same.

For instance, going of on a provably, even laughable, false troll post about a tangential issue to distract from the relevant fact that you are repeatedly being caught out using the same disproved talking points about abortion.

You should try that!

[tzor]

You know that people who don't pay income tax still pay taxes, right? They still pay payroll and sales taxes, for example.

Payroll taxes go to the Social Security Trust fund (unless you do want to admit that all federal funds are fungible) and sales tax is not collected on the Federal level, so they did not pay taxes for any Federal program, like the bailout of the banks. I don't see them complaining about how Social Security is being spent; only monies that they do not contribute to, and only to the tune of "I didn't get any of that."

[tzor]

Of course they can. Thinking it would be hard to do is, frankly, incredibly stupid. Hell, mandate the CEO's salary(and flat disallow golden parachutes and stock options for executives that aren't also offered in the same amounts to everyone in the company) be a maximum multiple of the average employee. It's actually not hard to do. Virtually 0 CEOs in the Fortune 500 are worth their salary (a few take low salaries by choice). You could hire someone at one hundredth their cost and not have a drop in value equal to the difference in their salary.

How, please tell me how you do this and still have even a vague resemblence that we still live in a constitutional republic after you are said and done. How can you legally cap the salary of anyone? How can you legally prevent any other form of compensation to anyone? It is not possible within any rule of law that wouldn't be overturned in a hearbeat because rich people can afford good lawyers who will tear such stupid laws to shreads.

There is only one way you can cap a CEO's salary - you get the stock holders to vote everyone off the board until they fond someone who will do that sort of thing. The law of cdemocracy states that shit happens when the voters are apathetic, and the shareholders are the corporate voters.

Umm....No. The Tea Party movement predates the Bush bailouts by years. The recent explosion had absolutely nothing to do with the bank bailouts and was a protest against Obama being elected President, funded heavily by his political enemies.

The tea party movement was the brainchild of a specific person on CNBC.

On February 19, 2009,[52] in a broadcast from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, CNBC Business News editor Rick Santelli criticized the government plan to refinance mortgages, which had just been announced the day before. He said that those plans were "promoting bad behavior"[53] by "subsidizing losers' mortgages". He suggested holding a tea party for traders to gather and dump the derivatives in the Chicago River on July 1.[54][55][56] A number of the floor traders around him cheered on his proposal, to the amusement of the hosts in the studio. Santelli's "rant" became a viral video after being featured on the Drudge Report.[57]

Priot to that (LESS THAN ONE MONTH PRIOR) it was just a single local protest in New York State with the name of "tea party."

On January 24, 2009, Trevor Leach, chairman of the Young Americans for Liberty in New York State organized a "Tea Party" to protest obesity taxes proposed by New York Governor David Paterson and call for fiscal responsibility on the part of the government. Several of the protesters wore Native American headdresses similar to the band of 18th century colonists who dumped tea in Boston Harbor to express outrage about British taxes.

Now Ron Paul had used the notion of the "Tea Party" as a rallying cry and some of his old webpages from his 2008 presidental campaign were revamped with the Tea Party Movement sprang into being, but these pre-cursors cannot be considered the tea party movement, but rather the elect Ron Paul movement whcih at the time had failed!