Making less-terrible Cthulhutech-esque RPG

[hyzmarca]

I'd say that the dai-kaiju life-stage corresponds to Deep One menopause. They stop reproducing when they start growing huge.

[Grek]

I agree with hyzmarca there.

[RadiantPhoenix]

If Dagon and Hydra produce even a single child every century and lose one every two centuries, then in a million years that gives them five thousand children.

And suddenly the numbers difference between The Union and the giant monsters is put into plain sight -- Shub-Niggurath is described as, "The Black Goat With a Thousand Young," as though that means something, but Hydra has (or could have) five times that number.

[Saxony]

I'd just like to point out that number does not include all descendants.

[hyzmarca]

If Dagon and Hydra produce even a single child every century and lose one every two centuries, then in a million years that gives them five thousand children.

And suddenly the numbers difference between The Union and the giant monsters is put into plain sight -- Shub-Niggurath is described as, "The Black Goat With a Thousand Young," as though that means something, but Hydra has (or could have) five times that number.

A thousand is an oldschool poetic way of saying "too many to count." If the Mad Arab had lived in modern times he would have called her the Black Goat with a Fuckton of Young.

That would be just as inaccurate, because she is neither black nor a goat, but it gives some idea of how many children she has.

Shubby's offspring are best described as innumerable. She does nothing but pop them out all day every day and has been doing so for billions of years.

Her biggest weakness is that most of her children are free-willed. They usually go off and do their own thing. Normally she wouldn't care about the goat-spawn abandoning her, but Earth is special. There's a reason why Cthulhu moved here, after all. I have no clue what that reason is, but Earth is attractive to far too many Outer Gods, Great Old Ones, and intergalactic empires for it to be a coincidence.

So, going back (to page 6) to the topic of names for the game for a little bit:

I propose we shorten this to Sentai Fhtagn and use that.

I'm pretty sure that this can be roughly translated as, "Dream Team," which sounds like at least as good a name as any. (The longer version could translate as, "Magical Dream Team, fuck yeah!" if my Googling is correct)

I believe that the exact translation would he "Hey! Hey! Magical Task Force is Dreaming."

"Magical Dream Team, fuck yeah" is probably a decent approximation.

[Avoraciopoctules]

What does the energy situation look like? Fossil fuels have been significantly depleted, and many people can now expect to live long enough to see the effects of climate change barring accident.

Are fusion batteries viable?

How sophisticated is space travel, and does the Union have any significant satellite presence?

[RadiantPhoenix]

Her biggest weakness is that most of her children are free-willed. They usually go off and do their own thing. Normally she wouldn't care about the goat-spawn abandoning her, but Earth is special. There's a reason why Cthulhu moved here, after all. I have no clue what that reason is, but Earth is attractive to far too many Outer Gods, Great Old Ones, and intergalactic empires for it to be a coincidence.

Earth is the, "42," of the universe -- someone made a joke about it once, and now whenever someone, "in the know," picks a (life-bearing?) planet, "at random," they're very likely to pick Earth.

Alternatively, because the Elder Things were a pretty big thing, and they came here, and now that they're pretty much dead, lots of people want their stuff.

[Chamomile]

Reasons why Earth might be special:

1) Because Cthulhu put down roots here. He might have chosen Earth pretty much explicitly because we're a mostly unimportant backwater that can support some life he could zap into guardians, but after he went to sleep here and word got around, Earth became more important.

2) Because Dagon and Hydra went rogue. A lot of more advanced species, Great Old Ones, etc. etc. might have a policy of making sure species don't get advanced enough to challenge them. The Moon Beasts were either a cat's paw or a lucky break for them, basically sealing humanity's fate as an advanced civilization right around the time we were getting uncomfortably close to being important. Then Dagon and Hydra made nice with the UN and now Earth's progress has not only not been halted, but dramatically accelerated. After a century of this, humanity may still be a lightweight but we are in the same league as the interstellar empires, which is exactly what they wanted to prevent.

3) After the first time we beat up a Great Old One without even noticing (see: Cthulhu vs. Boat), things from space decided that maybe they should pay more attention to us.

4) Nuclear weapons are pound-for-pound the most destructive weapon ever created and it's making other races take notice.

5) We have large reserves of unobtainium hidden deep inside the planet.

[Username17]

Her biggest weakness is that most of her children are free-willed. They usually go off and do their own thing. Normally she wouldn't care about the goat-spawn abandoning her, but Earth is special. There's a reason why Cthulhu moved here, after all. I have no clue what that reason is, but Earth is attractive to far too many Outer Gods, Great Old Ones, and intergalactic empires for it to be a coincidence.

My idea would be to tie it into the reason that the Mi Go don't mass driver us from space. Somewhere under the surface of the Earth is the Chime of Azathoth or something, and if you ring it correctly Azathoth shows up and pulls a Galactus on everything nearby. And if you ring it really correctly, Azathoth shows up, eats everything, and replaces it all with something you like better.

So, basically Adam from NGE. Monsters show up and try to attack the planet and seize the chimes, but they under no circumstances are willing to just blow the planet up, even if they could. So Xichulub plans are totally unacceptable to the Boreans or the Abyss. We could go one more step towards NGE and have The Union have already found at least one piece of the chimes and hid them under a major city so that they can draw invaders to a heavily defended choke point.

-Username17

[RadiantPhoenix]

What does the energy situation look like? Fossil fuels have been significantly depleted, and many people can now expect to live long enough to see the effects of climate change barring accident.

Many territories probably have lots of solar/wind/hydro power. Others probably turn to dream-power or something.

Are fusion batteries viable?

The problem with a fusion battery is, how do you recharge it?

How sophisticated is space travel, and does the Union have any significant satellite presence?

The Yuggoth/Borea front involves spaceships, so the Union probably has at least satellites and the means to maintain them, if not actual warships sitting on the Lagrange points ready to shoot invaders. Solar Sails?

[Hicks]

I would like to point out that the Orion Nuclear Pulse Drive is totally a thing that could be done with 1958 technology,

And that NASA is currently researching warp drive. Warp drive, a hundred years from now, will lead to terrifyingly powerful weapons; imagine a sphere of iron 200 meters wide, now convert its rest mass to energy, then think of the implications of that burst of gamma-rays propagating at lightsepeed slamming into a target.

[Shatner]

I would like to point out that the Orion Nuclear Pulse Drive is totally a thing that could be done with 1958 technology,

And that NASA is currently researching warp drive. Warp drive, a hundred years from now, will lead to terrifyingly powerful weapons; imagine a sphere of iron 200 meters wide, now convert its rest mass to energy, then think of the implications of that burst of gamma-rays propagating at lightspeed slamming into a target.

The whole Project Orion concept is pretty bad ass. Provided you don't mind using a LOT of nukes, and don't mind setting off those nukes on the ground, in the upper atmosphere, and in near-earth space then yes, you can have a space ship that is the size of a city block, made of steel, concrete, and shock absorbers that attains a reasonable percentage of the speed of light.

Of course, if you could build and launch the damn thing from the moon instead, you wouldn't cause nearly so many environmental problems getting the darn ship off the ground. Now, transporting and storing that many nukes to the moon could be a security nightmare...

[Shatner]

Also, I just realized that Charles Stross' A Colder War should pretty much be required reading for this thread. It's a short story he's posted free online. It's good and thematically spot-on.

"Stop. So you're saying the Russians have these, uh, Shoggoths, but we don't have any. And even those dumb Arab bastards in Baghdad are working on them. So you're saying we've got a, a Shoggoth gap? A strategic chink in our armour? And now the Iranians say the Russians are using them in Afghanistan?''

Roger speaks rapidly: "That is minimally correct, sir, although countervailing weapons have been developed to reduce the risk of a unilateral preemption escalating to an exchange of weakly godlike agencies.'' The congressman in the middle nods encouragingly. "For the past three decades, the B-39 Peacemaker force has been tasked by SIOP with maintaining an XK-PLUTO capability directed at ablating the ability of the Russians to activate Project Koschei, the dormant alien entity they captured from the Nazis at the end of the last war. We have twelve PLUTO-class atomic-powered cruise missiles pointed at that thing, day and night, as many megatons as the entire Minuteman force. In principle, we will be able to blast it to pieces before it can be brought to full wakefulness and eat the minds of everyone within two hundred miles.''

He warms to his subject. "Secondly, we believe the Soviet control of Shoggoth technology is rudimentary at best. They know how to tell them to roll over an Afghan hill-farmer village, but they can't manufacture more of them. Their utility as weapons is limited -- but terrifying -- but they're not much of a problem. A greater issue is the temple in Basra. This contains an operational gateway, and according to Mehmet the Iraqi political secret police, the Mukhabarat, are trying to figure out how to manipulate it; they're trying to summon something through it. He seemed to be mostly afraid that they -- and the Russians -- would lose control of whatever it was; presumably another weakly godlike creature like the K-Thulu entity at the core of Project Koschei.''

The old guy speaks: "This foo-loo thing, boy -- you can drop those stupid K prefixes around me -- is it one of a kind?''

Roger shakes his head. "I don't know, sir. We know the gateways link to at least three other planets. There may be many that we don't know of. We don't know how to create them or close them; all we can do is send people through, or pile bricks in the opening.'' He nearly bites his tongue, because there are more than three worlds out there, and he's been to at least one of them: the bolt-hole on XK-Masada, built by the NRO from their secret budget. He's seen the mile-high dome Buckminster Fuller spent his last decade designing for them, the rings of Patriot air defence missiles. A squadron of black diamond-shaped fighters from the Skunk works, said to be invisible to radar, patrols the empty skies of XK-Masada. Hydroponic farms and empty barracks and apartment blocks await the senators and congressmen and their families and thousands of support personnel. In event of war they'll be evacuated through the small gate that has been moved to the Executive Office Building basement, in a room beneath the swimming pool where Jack used to go skinny-dipping with Marilyn.

[hyzmarca]

What does the energy situation look like? Fossil fuels have been significantly depleted, and many people can now expect to live long enough to see the effects of climate change barring accident.

Are fusion batteries viable?

How sophisticated is space travel, and does the Union have any significant satellite presence?

The primary source of energy in the Union is hot fusion. Ground-based power plants use laser-initiated deuterium-tritium fusion, for the most part. The compact and ultra-compact fusion reactors used in space vehicles and mecha use magnetic compression of helium 3 ions. They're more powerful, pound-for-pound, but less efficient and the fuel is much more expensive.

While battery-powered cars are common, fossil fuels are still in use for off-road vehicles, which may not have reliable access to infrastructure, and high preference aircraft that are too small to mount an ultra-compact reactor. The end result is that SUVs are still gas guzzlers.

Cheap spacelaunch is achieved via electromagnetic catapult.
Riding in an EMC capsule is sort of like being shot out of a cannon, because the EMC is a cannon and you are being shot out of it.
Equipment has to be hardened to withstand massive accelerations and passengers must be in extremely uncomfortable acceleration field couches or else their insides will get turned to jelly.

Fusion powered thermal rockets are available at much higher cost. They provide lower peak accelerations and larger per-launch payloads. If you can afford one it is the way to launch in style.

Once you actually get out of the atmosphere, most craft use Orion drives, which is a fancy way of saying that they throw nuclear bombs out their back doors and ride the explosions. This provides a decent balance between fuel mass, payload, and maximum acceleration. Pure nuclear thermal drives, which use a fusion reactor to heat propellant, are also available. These are commonly used by space-modified mecha but can also be used by larger craft. They aren't quite as fast or efficient as nuclear pulse propulsion, and don't give the same kzinti lesson capability, but are cheaper and require less maintenance. Chemical rockets are used by smaller craft and satellites.

The Union is also researching reactionless "aether wing" propulsion, which is a natural part of Mi-Go physiology (the Mi-Go are fully capable of flying from Pluto to Earth naked) and is also possessed by Cthulhu. Currently, only Knight-class Thrones incorporate aether wings.

Long range space travel is a bit weird. The Union currently has one method of FTL travel, traveling through the dreamlands. Most Earth-Moon traffic goes through the Dreamlands, because it's so much faster and more efficient than using rockets.

Dreamland FTL can hypothetically take you to other galaxies (or even the center of the universe) in minutes. Unfortunately, it's highly unreliable, and ships that go out too far will probably be destroyed by a blast of Azatoth trumpet, or worse. Not all celestial bodies have a Dreamlands counterpart, they only do if there are Dreamers nearby. This means that you can't use the Dreamlands to get to uninhabited rocks, and there is a very good chance that the natives won't be nice. The final complication is getting back to the Waking World. Even if you make it to the right planet and aren't killed by something, you have to find a Tunnel to the Waking World. If this were easy, everyone would be doing it. For these reasons, the Union doesn't use the Dreamlands for long-range space exploration.

Generally, any FTl method that requires you to navigate between a couple of Azototh's trumpeters is a bad idea.

[RadiantPhoenix]

The primary source of energy in the Union is hot fusion. Ground-based power plants use laser-initiated deuterium-tritium fusion, for the most part. The compact and ultra-compact fusion reactors used in space vehicles and mecha use magnetic compression of helium 3 ions. They're more powerful, pound-for-pound, but less efficient and the fuel is much more expensive.

So, while I understand the reasons for using fusion power in mecha and other vehicles, why do you think that a fusion plant is a better choice than, say, wave or wind power, when it comes to infrastructure?

The Union is also researching reactionless "aether wing" propulsion, which is a natural part of Mi-Go physiology (the Mi-Go are fully capable of flying from Pluto to Earth naked) and is also possessed by Cthulhu. Currently, only Knight-class Thrones incorporate aether wings.

See: Solar Sails.

Long range space travel is a bit weird. The Union currently has one method of FTL travel, traveling through the dreamlands. Most Earth-Moon traffic goes through the Dreamlands, because it's so much faster and more efficient than using rockets.

Dreamland FTL can hypothetically take you to other galaxies (or even the center of the universe) in minutes. Unfortunately, it's highly unreliable, and ships that go out too far will probably be destroyed by a blast of Azatoth trumpet, or worse. Not all celestial bodies have a Dreamlands counterpart, they only do if there are Dreamers nearby. This means that you can't use the Dreamlands to get to uninhabited rocks, and there is a very good chance that the natives won't be nice. The final complication is getting back to the Waking World. Even if you make it to the right planet and aren't killed by something, you have to find a Tunnel to the Waking World. If this were easy, everyone would be doing it. For these reasons, the Union doesn't use the Dreamlands for long-range space exploration.

Generally, any FTl method that requires you to navigate between a couple of Azototh's trumpeters is a bad idea.

No Alcubierre Drive?

[kzt]

So, while I understand the reasons for using fusion power in mecha and other vehicles, why do you think that a fusion plant is a better choice than, say, wave or wind power, when it comes to infrastructure?

Base load needs to be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Wind power sucks for baseload, because there is no base for wind. It's why the UK is predicting disastrous blackouts as they convert more and more to wind power. It's also very expensive, as it turns out the practical life of a wind turbine is a lot less than what they were sold as. Plus the neighbors hate them.

Tides just are not enough power. IIRC, someone once did a calculation that building a 50 foot wall along the entire US continental shelf and using this to harvest the tides along the entire coast of the US would produce 15% of the 1980 US electrical usage.

Solar doesn't work because of that whole darkness bit.

So for modern world you can use coal, oil, natural gas, or nuclear power to provide the base load, or you accept massive blackouts every few weeks to months. If you assume that someone actually ever gets fusion to work you have that as an option too.

[RadiantPhoenix]

So, while I understand the reasons for using fusion power in mecha and other vehicles, why do you think that a fusion plant is a better choice than, say, wave or wind power, when it comes to infrastructure?

Base load needs to be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Wind power sucks for baseload, because there is no base for wind. It's why the UK is predicting disastrous blackouts as they convert more and more to wind power. It's also very expensive, as it turns out the practical life of a wind turbine is a lot less than what they were sold as. Plus the neighbors hate them.

Tides just are not enough power. IIRC, someone once did a calculation that building a 50 foot wall along the entire US continental shelf and using this to harvest the tides along the entire coast of the US would produce 15% of the 1980 US electrical usage.

Solar doesn't work because of that whole darkness bit.

So for modern world you can use coal, oil, natural gas, or nuclear power to provide the base load, or you accept massive blackouts every few weeks to months. If you assume that someone actually ever gets fusion to work you have that as an option too.

So, has nobody considered the idea of, you know, using batteries to store excess power during peak times for use during off-peak times?

EDIT: Also, wave and tidal power are actually different things.

[hyzmarca]

The primary source of energy in the Union is hot fusion. Ground-based power plants use laser-initiated deuterium-tritium fusion, for the most part. The compact and ultra-compact fusion reactors used in space vehicles and mecha use magnetic compression of helium 3 ions. They're more powerful, pound-for-pound, but less efficient and the fuel is much more expensive.

So, while I understand the reasons for using fusion power in mecha and other vehicles, why do you think that a fusion plant is a better choice than, say, wave or wind power, when it comes to infrastructure?

Wave power slows the rotation of the Earth and rips holes in spacetime, resulting in amnesiac temporal clones of The Rock running around and doing all sorts of crazy things. And Pimps don't commit suicide.

But, seriously, alternative energy research isn't exactly a big thing in universe. It isn't that it's a better choice, it's simply an easier choice.

IRL, the anti-nuclear power movement got real steam in the 70s and were able to block the development of nuclear plants using mass protests. The first major success of the anti-nuclear movement was in 1975, when they blocked the creation of a nuclear plant in Wyhl, Germany. In the alternate timeline, this didn't happen. Nor were there any mass protests against nuclear power anywhere else, at least none large enough to make an impact. Everyone was too busy fighting the Moon-beasts.
Three Mile Island never happened, or if it did it was the result of an attack rather than an accident. Chernobyl never happened.

After the war, the anti-nuclear weapons movement simply didn't exist. People wanted fuckhuge bombs. People wanted orion-drive warships. With critical infrastructure, the issue wasn't safety, but vulnerability. No one really cared if the power plant would blacken their lungs or turn them green. Everyone cared if it was vulnerable to artillery and missiles. You can build a nuclear planet in a nuke-proof bunker much easier than you can do the same with a coal-burning plant. You can't put solar or wind or waves in nuke-proof bunkers at all.

Adapting and scaling up military fusion technology was simply easier, more popular, and more profitable to the companies holding the patents than researching alternative renewable energy would have been.

If you ask voters on our Earth how they feel about research into renewable power sources the most liberal of them will ask you if renewable power sources can blow up giant monsters. If renewable power can't blow up giant monsters, they're likely to consider it a waste of money since fusion technology is mature and provides sufficient power for their current needs.

You don't think about decades in the future when you're concerned about being blown up tomorrow.


Mi-Go wings aren't solar sails. They're way too small and work in a planetary atmosphere. They're not constrained by aerodynamics, either.

Alcubierre Warp is probably something that the Elder Things had but lost.

[kzt]

So, has nobody considered the idea of, you know, using batteries to store excess power during peak times for use during off-peak times?

Sure. Scale and cost are the issues. Figure out how many batteries (of whatever type you want) you need to provide 150,000 megawatts of power (about 25% of US capacity) for 12 hours and then do a back of the envelope calculation as to cost. That doesn't include the AC/DC conversion, cooling or replacement cost.

Various approaches have been tried, none successfully yet.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Wave power slows the rotation of the Earth and rips holes in spacetime, resulting in amnesiac temporal clones of The Rock running around and doing all sorts of crazy things. And Pimps don't commit suicide.

Uh, what?

After the war, the anti-nuclear weapons movement simply didn't exist. People wanted fuckhuge bombs. People wanted orion-drive warships. With critical infrastructure, the issue wasn't safety, but vulnerability. No one really cared if the power plant would blacken their lungs or turn them green. Everyone cared if it was vulnerable to artillery and missiles. You can build a nuclear planet in a nuke-proof bunker much easier than you can do the same with a coal-burning plant. You can't put solar or wind or waves in nuke-proof bunkers at all.

That's actually a potential point.

IRL, the anti-nuclear power movement got real steam in the 70s and were able to block the development of nuclear plants using mass protests. The first major success of the anti-nuclear movement was in 1975, when they blocked the creation of a nuclear plant in Wyhl, Germany. In the alternate timeline, this didn't happen. Nor were there any mass protests against nuclear power anywhere else, at least none large enough to make an impact. Everyone was too busy fighting the Moon-beasts.
Three Mile Island never happened, or if it did it was the result of an attack rather than an accident. Chernobyl never happened.

Okay, what does that have to do with Fusion power?

But, seriously, alternative energy research isn't exactly a big thing in universe. It isn't that it's a better choice, it's simply an easier choice.

Adapting and scaling up military fusion technology was simply easier, more popular, and more profitable to the companies holding the patents than researching alternative renewable energy would have been.

Despite trying, we have failed to produce effective fusion power to this day.
Despite not having electricity, wind and hydro power were a thing in the 19th century.

There are reasons to try to make fusion power work, but wind and hydro already do -- you just hook up a rotary generator to your turbine's shaft, and wire it up.

If you ask voters on our Earth how they feel about research into renewable power sources the most liberal of them will ask you if renewable power sources can blow up giant monsters. If renewable power can't blow up giant monsters, they're likely to consider it a waste of money since fusion technology is mature and provides sufficient power for their current needs.

Uh, how exactly is a fusion power plant going to blow up giant monsters?

Other than by powering a weapons, of course.

---

EDIT:

So, has nobody considered the idea of, you know, using batteries to store excess power during peak times for use during off-peak times?

Sure. Scale and cost are the issues. Figure out how many batteries (of whatever type you want) you need to provide 150,000 megawatts of power (about 25% of US capacity) for 12 hours and then do a back of the envelope calculation as to cost. That doesn't include the AC/DC conversion, cooling or replacement cost.

Various approaches have been tried, none successfully yet.

So, one of these things in every state?

---

Second, saving power will be a thing:

(But replace Hitler with Shub-Niggurath or something)

[hyzmarca]

Wave power slows the rotation of the Earth and rips holes in spacetime, resulting in amnesiac temporal clones of The Rock running around and doing all sorts of crazy things. And Pimps don't commit suicide.

Uh, what?

Have you never seen Southland Tales?

Despite trying, we have failed to produce effective fusion power to this day.
Despite not having electricity, wind and hydro power were a thing in the 19th century.

This is a universe where we used a zombie formula to resurrect a bunch of winged twelve-limbed planet people super-scientists who helped us build protoplasmic combat cyborgs. I really don't think that's a reasonable complaint.

Military fusion came first, civilian fusion sprang from that. Money that might have gone into researching alternative energy is instead pushed into military projects, which are deemed more important.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Have you never seen Southland Tales?

No.

This is a universe where we used a zombie formula to resurrect a bunch of winged twelve-limbed planet people super-scientists who helped us build protoplasmic combat cyb-rgs. I really don't think that's a reasonable complaint.

Military fusion came first, civilian fusion sprang from that. Money that might have gone into researching alternative energy is instead pushed into military projects, which are deemed more important.

The timeline diverges in 1927. Hydroelectric dams CAME FIRST!

In 1920, the US enacted the Federal Power Act to manage the production of hydroelectric power, because over 40% of the USA's power came from hydroelectric dams!

Pumped-storage hydroelectricity comes from the ludicrously simple idea of having a hydroelectric dam that can run in reverse!

The earliest patent I can find for a wind-electric generator in the US was filed in 1916.

This stuff predates fission AND the war by decades.

[hyzmarca]

I'm not saying that hydroelectric dams don't exist, they do. Hydroelectric damns also exist and possibly hydroelectric darns. They just aren't a focus of new construction in 2097.

Nor am I saying that wind turbines don't exist, just that they aren't a major source of commercial power.

You should watch Southland Tales. It's both extremely good and painfully confusing.

[RadiantPhoenix]

I'm not saying that hydroelectric dams don't exist, they do. Hydroelectric damns also exist and possibly hydroelectric darns. They just aren't a focus of new construction in 2097.

Nor am I saying that wind turbines don't exist, just that they aren't a major source of commercial power.

No reason given.

The questions we should really be asking are these:

• What makes the setting better?
• How do we make that the sensible choice?

I think that the answer being, "it varies between the different territories," is best, because it allows you to tell any of the stories any general choice could tell.

The reason I would give is, "because some of them found it easy to use existing technologies, but some of them found it more convenient to switch to more exotic sources of power."

Bullshit power sources like, "dream power," and whatnot are probably something that should exist in some territories, with unspecified costs, dangers, and efficacies.

The Union can probably be assumed to use primarily whatever has the highest energy density for its synthetic war machines and mobile bases, but remember that the PCs almost exclusively run on biofuels -- the only likely exception is synthetic mecha and vehicles.

---

Also, your explanation of, "military use lead to civilian use," leaves out the gaping problem that in order to have military use you have to get it to work first.

[kzt]

So, one of these things in every state?

That would be a great start, but electrical consumptions isn't even, so it wouldn't be one per state. But 50 would probably work. The real problem would be the elevation difference needed (1260 feet here), which will tend to limit your locations a lot.

It was also 1.6 billion in 1985, and was upgraded by 50% to reach that power level. So 5 billion per in 2013 dollars, or 250 billion overall for 50 of them. Assuming you have somewhere natural to place them, as I suspect creating a 1260 foot hill in Kansas to hold a 265 acre lake will add just a teeny tiny bit to the cost.