Science Fiction RPG Preferences and the Genre Umbrella

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:07 am

...or stupid fast character generation. Like, even faster than an AD&D fighter to account for the extreme lethality.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:44 am

Artless wrote:Why would I ever play using a universal system that flat out admits to not being able to handle a genre better than other games designed specifically for that genre? You yourself have intoned that universal systems are unable to handle grab-bag games with characters from every corner of media, so what possible use is there in making a system that tries to cover bases that have already been covered better by other systems? You are admitting failure when you imply that a universal system is supposed to be used to model a specific genre when you use it because they are, definitionally, not.

One reason why I'd do it - the reason why I use Shadowrun 4 for all SciFi/modern themed games I run - is that I don't like having to learn a new system each time I play another game, and I am not alone in my gaming group with that stance.

Artless · Post by **Artless** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:05 am

To be honest, though, you aren't using it as a universal system. Your SciFi/modern themed uses likely don't push Shadowrun's mechanical models far past their intended boundaries, if at all. You might prune some segments of the ruleset if they aren't thematically consistent with your current game, but you aren't asking its engine to spit out results it can't generate.

I'm willing to bet, then, that you wouldn't want to use it to run a medieval fantasy quest-fest or a capes game. I sure as hell wouldn't want to.

But yes, adapting to a different system every time you switch genres does require time and effort. However I think the benefits of using a mechanical framework suited to the genre you're working in are worth it.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:41 pm

Hicks wrote:...or stupid fast character generation. Like, even faster than an AD&D fighter to account for the extreme lethality.

For Fighters
Rolled Attacks vs Static Enemy Defense
Rolled Defense vs Static Enemy Attack
No Armor (Single Hit Kills)
Optional Shields (Negates attacks of a certain color, can only have one shield active at a time)
Scrape (successful dodges charge your superweapons)

For Battleships
Static Attack and Defense
Heavy Armor (multiple HPs)
Superweapon Cooldown (Can be fired at regular intervals, but can't gain charge from scraping)

Extra lives available as needed. There are plenty of potential justifications for this, from Cylon Resurrection to space-time shenanigans.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:17 pm

hyzmarca wrote:Optional Shields (Negates attacks of a certain color, can only have one shield active at a time)

That's a really cool idea. It could add some tactical depth to the game, and it wouldn't be hard to flavor as something a little more complicated.

Red -> Plasma Shield
White -> Deflector Screen
Black -> Cloak
Blue -> Point Defense
Green -> Decontaminator

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:07 am

The idea ripped is off from Ikaruga, which is an awesome bullet hell shooter. It's impossible to beat without skillful shield changes.

In theory, you should just set the shield against whatever has the best attack rating and dodge the rest, which lacks tactical depth. This can become a more difficult choice when multiple enemies have multiple weapons at different attack ratings.

You could also add an active dodge option on top of the defense roll, and allow the shield to be switched one per turn as an interrupt. So the player would have to choose between an active dodge and a partial attack or a regular dodge and a full attack and rely on shield switching to protect against bad rolls. Then you give him a few HP so he might want to take a hit instead of switching shields, just in case he rolls bad against one of the big guns.

K · Post by K » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:22 am

Anyone have a list of sci-fi games that I can look up?

Red Lantern · Post by **Red Lantern** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:08 am

To answer one question, yes there was a ringworld rpg done by chaosium before some idiot there opted to turn it from a rpg company that published various literary themed RPGs into the "Cthulhu game company".

It was done in the mid 80's and was pretty damn good, it's a RPG legend now.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:10 pm

K wrote:Anyone have a list of sci-fi games that I can look up?

The following are sci-fi games that I know of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... ying_games

It's missing a few, however:
Star Wars (SAGA, WEG, Revised)
GURPS anything besides Infinite
FATE varieties (Diaspora, Bulldogs!, Starblazer)
Gatecrasher (FUDGE)
M&M (sci-fi focus)
Star Trek (FASA)
Babylon 5 (d20 based)
FASA's Mechwarrior

K · Post by K » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:04 pm

virgil wrote:
K wrote:Anyone have a list of sci-fi games that I can look up?
The following are sci-fi games that I know of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... ying_games

It's missing a few, however:
Star Wars (SAGA, WEG, Revised)
GURPS anything besides Infinite
FATE varieties (Diaspora, Bulldogs!, Starblazer)
Gatecrasher (FUDGE)
M&M (sci-fi focus)
Star Trek (FASA)
Babylon 5 (d20 based)
FASA's Mechwarrior

I guess that I didn't miss much because I also looked at Traveller, Eclipse Phase, Fires of Heaven, d20 Future, and Rifts.

I guess WW's Abberation also counts.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:06 am

Yeah, you should check out Diaspora and/or Starblazer Adventures, as those are rules-lights that are well thought of. Other than that, Science Fiction gaming is very thin on the ground unless you include "Post Apocalypse", "Cyberpunk", or "Science Fantasy".

-Username17

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:07 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Yeah, you should check out Diaspora and/or Starblazer Adventures, as those are rules-lights that are well thought of. Other than that, Science Fiction gaming is very thin on the ground unless you include "Post Apocalypse", "Cyberpunk", or "Science Fantasy".

-Username17

Should I be concerned that Starblazer is a "rules-lite" despite being 632 PAGES??! I know Diaspora isn't any better with its 256 page count... I thought part of the point of Rules-Lite games, were to also feature a low page count to get into the game quickly? Since I don't own these books, I can only assume that there is finely detailed setting, opposed to a ruleset being behind most of it, and pretty much can fiat those details in a way like they're rules, since the setting details it so well?

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:08 pm

I'll mention Battle Stations again.

It calls itself a board game but you have characters that are customizable as in RPGs, you gain experience and level up, you modify and improve your ship as you level up between adventures. It's an RPG. It handles Internal Ship combat, Ship vs Ship Combat. What there are not rules for are social interactions, but given how shitty most rules are in that realm, I'm not terribly saddened that it is left up to MTP.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:25 pm

Aryxbez wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:Yeah, you should check out Diaspora and/or Starblazer Adventures, as those are rules-lights that are well thought of. Other than that, Science Fiction gaming is very thin on the ground unless you include "Post Apocalypse", "Cyberpunk", or "Science Fantasy".

-Username17
Should I be concerned that Starblazer is a "rules-lite" despite being 632 PAGES??! I know Diaspora isn't any better with its 256 page count... I thought part of the point of Rules-Lite games, were to also feature a low page count to get into the game quickly? Since I don't own these books, I can only assume that there is finely detailed setting, opposed to a ruleset being behind most of it, and pretty much can fiat those details in a way like they're rules, since the setting details it so well?

Yes. You should be concerned, because that is some bullshit. FATE games are notorious for bad use of word count. The actual game system is that you have some numbers and you have some traits. Also, other things around you have traits. And you roll a heavily curved RNG against your numbers at every critical juncture. The player can interrupt the narrative at any time to change shit by invoking the traits of their character or their surroundings and spending FATE points. If they interrupt the narrative to make things worse for their character in some way, the FATE cost is negative, allowing them to shift harm from one juncture to another. And that's the whole fucking system. You could get the whole thing into a single page.

But FATE books are routinely hundreds of pages long. This is because they were written in the 2000s.

-Username17

kzt · Post by **kzt** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Red Lantern wrote:To answer one question, yes there was a ringworld rpg done by chaosium before some idiot there opted to turn it from a rpg company that published various literary themed RPGs into the "Cthulhu game company".

They sold off RQ to AH and got screwed, went nearly bankrupt from CCGs, tried formatting their stuff for the book store trade, tried being a distributor, lost Pendragon to pay off debts, and eventually broke apart. The part that is still called Chaosium is Charlie Frank's company now (IIRC, last I heard) and pretty much just does CoC.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:18 am

FrankTrollman wrote:But FATE books are routinely hundreds of pages long. This is because they were written in the 2000s.

-Username17

That might change if this project turns out well. Was glancing at a couple RPG sites, and apparently the FATE system is getting reworked.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evi ... n=92891359

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:40 pm

Does TORG count as sci-fi? What about Starshield?