Dominion 3 Strategy & Questions

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:48 am

K wrote:You forgot Light of the Northern Stars and Banner of the Northern Star.

Fixed!

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:47 am

Another CoE3 preview video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HsP2oSb2g

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:29 am

I think slaves dont get the path bonus in the communion.
They only get the bonus for fatigue calculation right?

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:06 am

Korwin wrote:I think slaves dont get the path bonus in the communion.
They only get the bonus for fatigue calculation right?

No, everyone including slaves gets the bonus paths.

That's why reverse communions are totally possible wherein you have 1 master and a lot of powerful slaves. The master casts a couple of buffs that benefits everyone in the communion, then retreats, allowing the slaves to now start casting spells independently.

tenuki · Post by **tenuki** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:11 am

Question.

I'm in a duel against LA Ulm (CBM) and looking for counters to Iron Darts/Blizzard. Are the missiles in those spells mundane? Does Arrow Fend help?

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:47 am

Zinegata wrote:
Korwin wrote:I think slaves dont get the path bonus in the communion.
They only get the bonus for fatigue calculation right?
No, everyone including slaves gets the bonus paths.

That's why reverse communions are totally possible wherein you have 1 master and a lot of powerful slaves. The master casts a couple of buffs that benefits everyone in the communion, then retreats, allowing the slaves to now start casting spells independently.

No, tested it just now.
Tried it with LA Marignon F2S1 caster as slave, S1 as master who cast Power of the sp..., the only time he casted it was when he had extra gems to push his path and then only in the third round after power of the sp. (spelling?).

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:54 am

tenuki wrote:Question.

I'm in a duel against LA Ulm (CBM) and looking for counters to Iron Darts/Blizzard. Are the missiles in those spells mundane? Does Arrow Fend help?

Single target missiles (in the case of the spell listed, multiple effects, each creating a single target missile) should be effected by air shield. Arrow fend should also work.

Keep in mind, that is only one layer of protection, many of those darts will still find a target if your opponent is really spamming them. High protection mundane units with shield should have some staying power. Perhaps spread out a few squads of decoys as well.

tenuki · Post by **tenuki** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Winnah wrote:
tenuki wrote:Question.

I'm in a duel against LA Ulm (CBM) and looking for counters to Iron Darts/Blizzard. Are the missiles in those spells mundane? Does Arrow Fend help?
Single target missiles (in the case of the spell listed, multiple effects, each creating a single target missile) should be effected by air shield. Arrow fend should also work.

Thanks.

Zinegata wrote:
That's why reverse communions are totally possible wherein you have 1 master and a lot of powerful slaves. The master casts a couple of buffs that benefits everyone in the communion, then retreats, allowing the slaves to now start casting spells independently.

You don't need to have the master retreat. Hand him a bow and script him to fire and you're good. Better even a crossbow; firing only every other turn means you can go until turn 28 before he runs out of ammo and starts doing other things. Most battles should be safely over or at least decided by then.

Stellar Cascades is a great spell to spam with a reverse communion. Bullshit S1 mages can cast it for 10 fatigue with PotS and LotNS. If you add Summon EP, that goes a looong way.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:02 pm

Korwin wrote: Tried it with LA Marignon F2S1 caster as slave, S1 as master who cast Power of the sp..., the only time he casted it was when he had extra gems to push his path and then only in the third round after power of the sp. (spelling?).

Edit: Wait, yeah you're right. The bonus paths from the communion itself are just for fatigue; you need to cast extra buffs to beef up the slaves. Fixing guide.

Communion mechanics:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37499

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:18 pm

Fixed. Added Stellar Cascades to the "nice Astral spells" list too.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:35 pm

Personally, I think Stellar Cascades is ass. Learning it is a major bummer, because then I have to go through all my astral casters and script them, because otherwise they'll cast it sometimes and that is a waste. You cast it and your enemies don't die. It takes 100 fatigue to even make your enemy lose a turn, and it only does 25 minus half their protection. It takes an enormous waft of Stellar Cascades to even slow the front rank down. And when it works? Then the second rank of enemies runs past the front rank and your opponent still hasn't lost any troops. If they overrun your position (which they likely will, because fatigued out enemies don't count against morale), every single unconscious enemy gets up for free at the end of battle no matter how much fatigue is on them.

True story: when I was storming Abysia with my Atlantean army after they went AI in the last game, the Warlock park in the castle decided to sit there with their thumb up their asses casting Stellar Cascades. Sure, I lost some troops, but I mostly rack that up to the enemy mechanical men. I would probably have lost more actual troops from fatigue death had they not cast any Stellar Cascades and simply waited for my troops to run into their giant heat aura. Had they spread out and come equipped with some blood sacrifices to send an imp wave, I might not have even won. If they had all scripted mind burns and soul slays, my casualties would have been much higher and biased towards powerful expensive units.

Stellar Cascades is a crap spell and astral powers get substantially worse at fighting when they learn it.

-Username17

tenuki · Post by **tenuki** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:32 pm

oops. double post.

tenuki · Post by **tenuki** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Dunno. Of course it depends on what you're up against.

Stellar Cascades combines GREAT with skellispam and chaff against reinvigging sacreds, for example. The main benefit of Stellar Cascades is not that it kills the enemy, but that it reduces his attack and defense while increasing the chance of your mediocre front-line troops, PD or whatever landing crits.

I'm not a huge fan of casting MR-resisted spells with a reverse communion. Casting in reverse does not do a lot for your penetration, and the targets you want to take out with Soul Slay, Paralyze and the like tend to be high-MR. If you're facing such an enemy, you're better off just using a regular communion and a few penetration boosters.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:02 pm

For future reference, if your post is the most recent one in a thread, you can delete it. So for double posts, just delete the second one.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:47 am

What about Stellar Cascades as SC stopper?

tenuki · Post by **tenuki** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:40 am

Haven't tried it in that function. I guess the 5 AoE is a problem when the SC is mixing it up with your troops as the SC (high armor, reinvigoration, maybe lifedrain) will generally fatigue a lot more slowly than your surrounding troops. Also, the 30 range makes it difficult to hit the guy while he's buffing in his own home zone. If there are troops screening the SC during the buff cycle, Stellar Cascades will target those.

I think the uses of this spell are pretty specific. It's basically a troop debuff with its main selling points being extremely high reliability (100 precision, fixed effect strength), decent range and AoE, and low casting requirements in terms of path and fatigue. It is also an offensive Astral Spell that's not resisted by MR, which is pretty rare.

If you decide to spam it, you KNOW your opponent will be fatigued, and you can predict quite accurately by how much. If the enemy relies on his tough line troops outlasting your Average Joes, Stellar Cascades can throw a stick in the works. If his strategy is to bury you under waves of chaff, forget it.

Also, as Frank pointed out, it's pretty useless for killing the enemy all by itself. You've got to bring someone to swing a stick. Combine with Destruction/Strength of Giants for increased effect.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:27 am

"Useless for killing enemies by itself" is very much Astral's schtick.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:57 pm

Is it possible to mod in a magic site that can be entered by a mage with a specific magic path to summon monsters? If so, how do I do that?

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:37 pm

Korwin, please refrain from reading this spoiler button as it pertains to The Ascension Wars.

I am Ashdod: E9N6 bless. I'm in the top North-East, but there is one person corner-wards of me; another new player playing Ermor. We both have 5 provinces now, and we'll both have ~11-12 at the end of the Indie Phase. A vet is playing R`yleh south of us.

He's got a frighteningly strong dominion, and no research. He sort of vaguely offered to go to war with R`yleh, simply as a "Look, I can go underwater, we're not necessarily enemies", but I think it's going to be to my advantage to take and kill him, eventually.

At what point do I do it? I've got Evocation 2, which gives my Fire and Astral commanders something to do; I could go to 4 for blade wind, but either way I've got Astral Fires.
I do not know any of my South/West territory, but in 2-3 turns I should.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:00 am

Ikeren wrote:Korwin, please refrain from reading this spoiler button as it pertains to The Ascension Wars.

I am Ashdod: E9N6 bless. I'm in the top North-East, but there is one person corner-wards of me; another new player playing Ermor. We both have 5 provinces now, and we'll both have ~11-12 at the end of the Indie Phase. A vet is playing R`yleh south of us.

He's got a frighteningly strong dominion, and no research. He sort of vaguely offered to go to war with R`yleh, simply as a "Look, I can go underwater, we're not necessarily enemies", but I think it's going to be to my advantage to take and kill him, eventually.

At what point do I do it? I've got Evocation 2, which gives my Fire and Astral commanders something to do; I could go to 4 for blade wind, but either way I've got Astral Fires.
I do not know any of my South/West territory, but in 2-3 turns I should.

Answer:

If MA Ermor is played properly he's not supposed to have research. He's supposed to have a bunch of Arch Theurgs summong 6+ Long Dead horsemen each every turn. By the end of the year he could be pumping out 40 a turn.

And with lances, those longdead horsemen are going to ruin your day.

Unless Ermor is a total mess and not leveraging on massing undead, a war against them is not a great idea.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:30 am

That explains why he has no research. So when do I take him out? Never? If R`yleh is weakening him? Once I have something that can do a lot of damage to his calvary researched?

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:04 am

Answer:

MA Ermor can either out research you or out produce you, but not at the same time. Ermor's capitol only mages have a minimum of S1D2H3 and can communion up fierce battle magics in support of their immense calvary and infantry formations.

That said, mass banishment bones them, as does earthquake or any wide angle battlefield evocation, and killing commanders stops their thousands deep undead army cold. The best way to win is before the battle starts: anything that can remote kill commanders, like seeking arrow and what not, is your best bet. Unless you kill at least 2 grand thalmathurges a turn (each a unit producer, unit transport, field artillery, and researcher), expect any victory you acheive to be pyrric at best.

Oh, and do all that before he out-researches you sometime in the second year; construction 4 and Skull Mentors, combined with non-capitol mage researchers, will push you out of the research race.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:05 am

Ikeren wrote:

That explains why he has no research. So when do I take him out? Never? If R`yleh is weakening him? Once I have something that can do a lot of damage to his calvary researched?

If Ermor wants to attack R'yleh, let them. They will be fighting at a disadvantage whenever they go underwater as undead don't make great underwater troops.

I am however not very keen on the idea of backstabbing a country that is performing the service of saving the world from the squidfaced menace. That would be called "ungrateful". Simply expand elsewhere while Ermor and R'yleh are killing each other.

Also... Ermor can be beaten in a fair fight. Follow Hick's advice of remote attack spells, earthquake, and mass banishment. Also, have a line of cheap troops to soak up the initial lance charge.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:27 pm

Human slave spam to break charges? I thought if 50% of your army dies, you route automatically? If I use 20 slaves and 5 Sheshites + a priest, won't that guarantee routing?

Also, earthquake question:
E2 Adon, Summon Earthpower E3, then 4 gems to cast Earthquake?

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:44 pm

I only hope I'm not near Ashdod...
Need to come back after the game to read the spoilers...