Feat: Master Plan

[Wiseman]

So I just came up with this out of the blue.
FINAL VERSION
Master Plan [General]
"14 demons, a beholder, and a red dragon. Looks tough."
"Yes, now here's what were going to do..."
If you have the opportunity to prepare for an encounter (at least 30 minutes), you may form a master plan. At any time during the encounter you may declare your master plan to be enacted. For a number of rounds equal to your Int mod your allies gain an insight bonus equal to 1/2 your Int bonus to attacks, checks, damage, armor class, or saves (chosen at the beginning of each of their turns. What the bonus applies to may be changed each turn).
Note: By "being prepared" for an encounter, it means knowing exactly how many enemies you'll face, and their relative strength and abilities and the location of the fight. A knowledge check might be called for. A significant change in the conditions of the battle can upset the master plan. The arrival of an unexpected new enemy (excluding summons), or a change in the location of the battle forces an intelligence check (DC equal to the new arrival's CR+15 or DC20 in the case of a location change [you can't use this feats bonus on it this]) by the user of this feat or all benefits of this feat are lost for the rest of the battle.

So what think. I'm trying to find a better way to word this.

[Prak]

Well, it's better crafted than other Master Plan type rules I've seen.

[Korgan0]

Having the bonus be equal to HD seems kinda excessive, honestly. Int mod might be a better choice.

[Koumei]

Well, I have three things to say on it:
1. The bonus is too high. There is no way you should be giving the whole team +level on (whatever the fuck they want, one choice per round).
2. Make the bonus Insight, because planning in advance sounds a lot like having insight into the situation (and casting Foresight to get a bonus as well as knowledge that gives you a bonus that stacks with the other bonus from the exact same thing is stupid).
3. You should call the feat Just According to Keikaku with the flavour text of (TN: Keikaku means plan)

I'll let you figure out which two of the above are serious issues that need addressing and which one is a stupid reference.

[Kaelik]

Yeah, 1) Way too high a bonus at levels that actually matter. Basically just write "you win the fight" instead.

2) That dc 15 intelligence check thing is pretty silly.

3) Scales really poorly, in the sense of too much. At level 1, that feat is fucking ass, at level 10, that feat just wins everything for you for ever, and Wizards laugh themselves to the bank.

4) Needs to be an insight bonus, a) because it does, and b) because it needs to not stack with multiple master plans.

[Hicks]

So... This is a better way of doing that.

Insightful Tactician [General]
"STAB IT IN THE FACE!"
Prerequisite: Intelligence 12
Benefit: As a standard action you may examine an enemy and make a special Knowledge Check to identify that enemy. If you roll higher than necessary to successfully identify an enemy with an appropriate Knowledge Check (DC 15 + Enemy's CR), you gain the difference of the Roll - Knowledge DC as an insight bonus to attack rolls and saving throws against that enemy for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence Modifier. The bonuses are also used against any other enemy you are aware of that is the same type and CR as the one you examined (examining a single orc in a hord of orcs of the same CR gives bonuses against the hord of orcs, but the bonuses against a wyrmling red dragon do not apply against a wyrm red dragon as the wyrm has a different CR). You can communicate this information to any allies you can communicate with, and they receive the same bonus you do for as long as you communicate with them.
You can always retry this special Knowledge Check by spending another standard action; doing so resets the duration of the effect.
Normal: Making a Knowledge Check is normally a non-action, and exceeding a Knowledge Check DC does not give bonuses to attack and saves against the enemy.

[Ice9]

So assuming you put a bit of effort into your skills, you get a $TEXAS bonus, but it takes a standard action. Sounds too good against single strong enemies and too crappy against larger groups. Also, doesn't Knowledge Devotion do pretty much this?

The problem with this type of feat is that either you have to abstract it to such an extent that it doesn't really feel like planning, or have it be an awkward fit. It's a bit easier to do on a smaller scale though. Here's some abilities that could fit, although I'm not sure how many feats they should be combined into:

I Knew You'd Do That
You can delay your turn in a special way. At any time while so delayed, you can turn the delay into a ready (thus interrupting someone else's action), as long as you make [some kind of Int-based check]. Maybe you can give other people the ability to do this as well.

Perfect Prediction
Once per [something], you can declare that the last creature's turn (which could be your own) was just your prediction as to what would happen. Redo that turn.
NOTE: Rewinding a whole round would give you more things to change, but would also be a huge pain in the ass to keep track of.

Schrodinger's Preparations
You can have up to [number] of "potentially prepared" slots - anything you would normally prepare in advance, such as spells, maneuvers, blessings, mutagens, etc. This can even apply to items if you set aside a pool of "potentially spent" cash for the purpose. During the course of events, you can cash these in, as anything you could have any chance of having predicted. Possible [some kind of Int-based check] applies.

Reading the Foe
By making [some kind of Int-based check], you can determine things about a foe that a knowledge check wouldn't normally cover, such as their planned combat tactics, what abilities they have prepared, whether they have some kind of trap/surprise waiting, and so forth.

[Kaelik]

It also does not emulate what they are trying to make, which is a plan.

See, the entire thing that he wants to fucking make is the thing where you make a plan without directly seeing people.

IE, hey, we know so and so is coming, and we know he is bringing a bunch of this and that type of minion, so the plan is to do X.

It is not to see people, and then get a bonus against them because you see them, because that already exists, and it is basically just Archivist and Knowledge Devotion.

[Wiseman]

Here's MKII

Master Plan [General]
"14 demons, a beholder, and a red dragon. Looks tough."
"Yes, now here's what were going to do..."
If you have the opportunity to prepare for an encounter, you may form a master plan. At any time during the encounter you may declare you master plan to be enacted. For a number of rounds equal to your Int mod+1/2HD you allies gain an insight bonus equal to your Int bonus+1/5HD to attacks, checks, damage, armor class, or saves (chosen at the beginning of each of their turns. What the bonus applies to may be changed each turn).
Note: By "being prepared" for an encounter, it means knowing exactly how many enemies you'll face, and their relative strength and abilities and the location of the fight. A knowledge check might be called for. A significant change in the conditions of the battle can upset the master plan. The arrival of an unexpected new enemy (excluding summons), or a change in the location of the battle forces a DC15 intelligence check by the user of this feat or all benefits of this feat are lost for the rest of the battle.

[Kaelik]

Still terrible:

1) Too fucking vague at when you are prepared.
2) Bonus is too fucking strong. Ask yourself the following question: Is your intention that anyone who takes this feat automatically wins anything even close to level appropriate without trying when they are prepared, because that is seriously what you are doing.

Like, seriously, Favored Enemy is a shit feature because it only works sometimes, and when it does, it is a piddly bonus. But the solution is not to make a feat that applies 90% of the time and adds half the RNG to whatever you want.

3) Your stupid fucking DC 15 Int check thing needs to go. Just delete it. If you get to use Master Plan, you get to use it, and if you don't, you don't. And for god fucking sakes stop adding a retarded Int check to it.

And even if you were going to add a stupid way to take the ability away from people mid fight, it damn well wouldn't be a static Int check that is a 50% chance at level 1 and a 0% chance at level 12.

[Wiseman]

Lowered bonus, raised DC.

Master Plan [General]
"14 demons, a beholder, and a red dragon. Looks tough."
"Yes, now here's what were going to do..."
If you have the opportunity to prepare for an encounter, you may form a master plan. At any time during the encounter you may declare you master plan to be enacted. For a number of rounds equal to your Int mod+1/2HD you allies gain an insight bonus equal to your Int bonus to attacks, checks, damage, armor class, or saves (chosen at the beginning of each of their turns. What the bonus applies to may be changed each turn).
Note: By "being prepared" for an encounter, it means knowing exactly how many enemies you'll face, and their relative strength and abilities and the location of the fight. A knowledge check might be called for. A significant change in the conditions of the battle can upset the master plan. The arrival of an unexpected new enemy (excluding summons), or a change in the location of the battle forces a DC20 intelligence check by the user of this feat or all benefits of this feat are lost for the rest of the battle.

EDIT: But then again... it kind of makes sense that a character would get better at planning as they leveled up. I want to keep a DC but is 20 too high or too low.

[Kaelik]

1) If you are so stupid that you really can't give up on your stupid fucking DC of Change, then you need at least make it scale. I told you that in the last post.

Imagine a situation: You round the corner and see a single Kobold, you have an Int of +16 because you are level whatever.

You make a master plan for the kobold, because you can and you know that it is actually some kind of trap.

Once you engage the Kobold, the trap is sprung, and two Titans appear from the sides. You make two DC 20 checks and your master plan for dealing with a single Kobold applies to the Titan Trap. Your stupid DC thing is stupid.

It creates a bunch of problems:

a) it incentivizes people to prepare plans for things that aren't the actual enemy if they can't find out the actual enemy.

b) For some reason, if you make a plan to deal with a single Kobold, it is harder to adapt to three Kobolds than it is to adapt to a Kobold and a Titan. So once enemies actually know that you have Master Plan, they will always bring 47 1/4 CR enemies to their ambushes to brute force your checks to failure, because those enemies who give literally zero XP because they are so irrelevant are more difficult to adapt your plan to than the actual meaningful opposition.

2) Int bonus scales and the RNG doesn't.

At level 1 this gives a +5 to everything, which means you automatically win the fight and laugh all the way home.

At level 12 this gives a +20 bonus. That is more than the entire RNG. If it was literally even possible for you to pass the save without Master Plan, you can't fail it. But even if it was just Int mod, you still would be getting a +14. Stop trying to scale something that already scales.

The RNG stays the same even when the numbers get bigger, so you need to give a +5 bonus to everything, and not an Int bonus or a xth of a HD bonus.

A +5 that just adds to PCs normal numbers is exactly as valuable when you are level 1 with a +5 against DC 15 as when you are level 12 with a +15 against DC 25.

[Wiseman]

I forgot. my bad.

I should have created a minimum span of time spent planning. something like at least 1 hour? 15 minutes? 30 minutes?

[Wiseman]

Master Plan [General]
"14 demons, a beholder, and a red dragon. Looks tough."
"Yes, now here's what were going to do..."
If you have the opportunity to prepare for an encounter (at least 30 minutes), you may form a master plan. At any time during the encounter you may declare you master plan to be enacted. For a number of rounds equal to your Int mod+1/2HD you allies gain an insight bonus equal to 1/2 your Int bonus to attacks, checks, damage, armor class, or saves (chosen at the beginning of each of their turns. What the bonus applies to may be changed each turn).
At 6 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int.
At 11 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int*1.5
At 16 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int*2
Note: By "being prepared" for an encounter, it means knowing exactly how many enemies you'll face, and their relative strength and abilities and the location of the fight. A knowledge check might be called for. A significant change in the conditions of the battle can upset the master plan. The arrival of an unexpected new enemy (excluding summons), or a change in the location of the battle forces a DC20 intelligence check (you can't use this feats bonus on it this) by the user of this feat or all benefits of this feat are lost for the rest of the battle.

[Kaelik]

At 6 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int.
At 11 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int*1.5
At 16 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int*2

You are the dumbest human being ever. You are a fucking idiot. Oh my god, you need to never write anything ever. At all.

Can you even read? Throw your computer against the wall, whatever comes out will be of better quality than anything you ever write.

[Wiseman]

At 6 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int.
At 11 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int*1.5
At 16 HD this bonus becomes equal to your Int*2

You are the dumbest human being ever. You are a fucking idiot. Oh my god, you need to never write anything ever. At all.

Can you even read? Throw your computer against the wall, whatever comes out will be of better quality than anything you ever write.

Okay, I laughed.

[Wiseman]

So, what? Make it scale less? Gain full int at level 11 and that's it?

Also, unless i'm wrong, a 30 minute preptime is a pretty big caveat. Aren't most encouters random, therefore negating any time to prepare? Against the creatures that you might be able to use this against (big plot bosses like dragons or beholders or demons lords.) the bonus is negligible.

Then again, what kind of INT scores are you talking about? If we go with int*1/2 bonus, at first level the bonus would be at best +2, unless there's some obscure race with super-high intelligence (I wouldn't know, I don't really do splatbook diving).

At fourth level, the bonus would at best scale to +3 as you would likely have an INT boosting item and if you played something like a gray elf or a tiefling would have a +2 racial bonus to int. Meaning Int of at best 22 or 23 (i think). Meaning a +3 bonus.

At level eight the bonus would become at best 24-25 meaning still +3.

So on and so on

Second, what do you mean by Scaling DC? DC equal to 15+HD or something?

[Kaelik]

So, what? Make it scale less? Gain full int at level 11 and that's it?

Okay, let's assume that this is being used by a Wizard who maxes Int, because that is who is going to use it.

At level 1: You have a 20 Int, so you get a +2.
At level 6: You have an Int of 23-25, so you get a +6-7.
At level 11: You have an Int of 31-33, so you get a +15-16.
At level 16: You have an Int of 35, so you get a +24.

Now, ignoring for the moment how you completely invalidated even the concept of an RNG at level 16, do you not fucking get that +15 at level 11 is three times as good as +5 at level 1 and seven times as good as +2 at level 1?

When you fight monsters at level 11, you have saves of +15, and they have DCs of 25. So a +10 brings you from 50% chance of failure to 0% chance of failure.

When you fight monsters at level 1, you have saves of +5, and monsters have DCs of 15. So a +10 brings you from 50% chance of failure to 0% chance of failure.

A +X bonus to contested parts of the RNG is identically as strong at level 1 as level 11.

Now, it is theoretically possible for someone who could have passed the save before the bonus to fail the save after. But despite that theoretical possibility, it will never actually happen, because it is a shift of 75% of the RNG and if you had less than a 25% chance of making the save beforehand, you shouldn't be fighting that enemy.

Second, what do you mean by Scaling DC? DC equal to 15+HD or something?

Plus CR would be better.

[Wiseman]

If that's the way you say, then it's best to just keep it at 1/2 int.

Master Plan [General]
"14 demons, a beholder, and a red dragon. Looks tough."
"Yes, now here's what were going to do..."
If you have the opportunity to prepare for an encounter (at least 30 minutes), you may form a master plan. At any time during the encounter you may declare your master plan to be enacted. For a number of rounds equal to your Int mod your allies gain an insight bonus equal to 1/2 your Int bonus to attacks, checks, damage, armor class, or saves (chosen at the beginning of each of their turns. What the bonus applies to may be changed each turn).
Note: By "being prepared" for an encounter, it means knowing exactly how many enemies you'll face, and their relative strength and abilities and the location of the fight. A knowledge check might be called for. A significant change in the conditions of the battle can upset the master plan. The arrival of an unexpected new enemy (excluding summons), or a change in the location of the battle forces an intelligence check (DC equal to the new arrival's CR+15 or DC20 in the case of a location change [you can't use this feats bonus on it this]) by the user of this feat or all benefits of this feat are lost for the rest of the battle.

EDIT: Considering the lack of retarded flaming in response to this post. I've gone ahead and edited this version into the first post.

[Wiseman]

So while I'm satisfied with this feat the way it is, my original intention was for it to be for fighter type characters. The sort of grizzled tactician who always has a plan for the battle.

So would making an option where the bonus is 1/2 BAB be broken in anyway?

Additionally I wanted to make another option for this feat where it could be used quicker, like maybe +1 to something with a successful knowledge check or whatever?

[Kaelik]

So would making an option where the bonus is 1/2 BAB be broken in anyway?

Yes, in the exact same way that literally every fucking version of your fucking feat would be broken. +1 to saves at level 1 is exactly as strong as +1 to saves at level 20. +10 to saves is exactly as strong at level 1 as it is at level 20.

That feat would be really shitty at level 1, and way OP at level 20. Exactly like every fucking other time I told you this for every version of your fucking feat so far.

Just give +5 you fucking idiot. The feat gives +5 to everything when you master plan, not +1/2 of anything that scales, just +5.

You fucking idiot.

[Wiseman]

So would making an option where the bonus is 1/2 BAB be broken in anyway?

Yes, in the exact same way that literally every fucking version of your fucking feat would be broken. +1 to saves at level 1 is exactly as strong as +1 to saves at level 20. +10 to saves is exactly as strong at level 1 as it is at level 20.

That feat would be really shitty at level 1, and way OP at level 20. Exactly like every fucking other time I told you this for every version of your fucking feat so far.

Just give +5 you fucking idiot. The feat gives +5 to everything when you master plan, not +1/2 of anything that scales, just +5.

You fucking idiot.

The hell's your issue? You've never said +5 before, so why am I an idiot for not thinking of that?

[Foxwarrior]

Because Kaelik was railing at you for putting a scaling bonus in where a static one should be. You're not an idiot for not thinking of "+5", you're an idiot for not thinking of +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, or +6.

Edit: The somewhat flawed Intelligence check could be replaced with an equally flawed BAB check, you know.

[Wiseman]

*sigh* well here we go.

Master Plan [General]
"14 demons, a beholder, and a red dragon. Looks tough."
"Yes, now here's what were going to do..."
If you have the opportunity to prepare for an encounter (at least 30 minutes), you may form a master plan. At any time during the encounter you may declare your master plan to be enacted. For a number of rounds equal to your Int mod your allies gain a +5 insight bonus to attacks, checks, damage, armor class, or saves (chosen at the beginning of each of their turns. What the bonus applies to may be changed each turn).
Even if you don't have the requisite prepare time, during an encounter you may make a knowledge check against the highest CR'd opponent. If successful, you and your allies gain a +1 insight bonus to the same things.
Note: By "being prepared" for an encounter, it means knowing exactly how many enemies you'll face, and their relative strength and abilities and the location of the fight. A knowledge check might be called for. A significant change in the conditions of the battle can upset the master plan. The arrival of an unexpected new enemy (excluding summons) with at least half your CR, or a change in the location of the battle forces an intelligence check (DC equal to the new arrival's CR+15 or DC20 in the case of a location change [you can't use this feats bonus onthis]) by the user of this feat or all benefits of this feat are lost for the rest of the battle.

EDIT: Looking back, I realize my sort of reading fail. I apologize. I just took issue at the flaming nature of the response.

[Kaelik]

The hell's your issue? You've never said +5 before, so why am I an idiot for not thinking of that?

From my post March 1st 11 posts ago:

"The RNG stays the same even when the numbers get bigger, so you need to give a +5 bonus to everything, and not an Int bonus or a xth of a HD bonus."

I have made 7 fucking posts in this thread telling you to stop scaling the bonus. I specifically used the number +5 six months ago. What the fuck more do I need to do to explain that the bonus can't fucking scale.